You're Top 5 WORST Valiant (VH1) Issue(s) EVER...

Sector3600 · Post by **Sector3600** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:19:45 pm

1) "Deathmate' ((Can my TOP 5 be all of it :x ))
2) Geomancer #5

3) The Second Life of Dr. Mirage #4

4.) X-O Manowar #44
5.) Ninjak #12

Dishonorable Mention: 'BIRTHQUAKE

' IMO 'Sh%TQUAKE' Sorry BUT it was pain even for the CORE Valiant titles...

myron · Post by **myron** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:06:12 pm

knight...the last 5 of hardcorps were bad(the last 2...REALLY bad)...but of the ones I've read...the last issues of magnus BLOW BIG CHUNKS...

Sector3600 · Post by **Sector3600** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:27:55 pm

Knightt_333 wrote:Agreeing with you there, Brother !!! Hell, just about every title's last five issues SUCK... I am in the process of reading Shadowman all the way through (never having done it before) so I reserve 'part' of that statement.

I think everthing after "Birth Shake & Bake (tm)

SUCKED!!!!"

I believe this is when I lost hope in Valiant/Acclaim

myron · Post by **myron** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:32:53 pm

Bloodshot...I've only got 3 more issues of that to go...has held up the best of the ones I've read...While I don't care for some of what was done (Rampage and Jillians Blood transfusion come to mind) at least it didn't completely undermine what had happened before and I could at least read the book without skipping through it to the end...

Jaknife · Post by **Jaknife** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:45:36 pm

i enjoyed issues 44 and 45 of bloodshot(concerning jillians transfusion)

1. harbinger 41
2. turok 47
3. shadowman 43
4. bloodshot 51
5. solar 60

regular issues(not last issues)
1. magnus 58
2. A&A 21
3. A&A 22
4. geomancer 3
5. bloodshot 46

dellamorte · Post by **dellamorte** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:35:35 pm

X-O #16
Psi-Lords #9
Hard Corps 27-30
Harbinger #19
Deathmate Black

sonicdan · Post by **sonicdan** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:37:24 pm

The only Birthquake stuff I didn't like was X-O. I actually oved the
last run on Magnus. I thought the last few Bloodshot issues
were really good too. To me, the worst was the post-Chaos
pre-Birthquake issues.
DAN

The Spider · Post by **The Spider** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:47:15 pm

The X-O Manowar stuff that occured from Birthquake and forward were the VH1 comics I didn't like the most. Mind you, I actually liked Bart Sears' art on Turok and #14 and 15 of X-O, but I really, really didn't like it on X-O (probably because it felt like it was mostly splash pages).

I didn't like the last couple of Magnus issues, or the post-Birthquake Solar (though I did think the Jurgens issues were all right). And I usually like Keith Giffen's writing, mind you (and actually though PUNX was kinda funny).

I did like post-Birthquake Bloodshot and Turok, though. The final issue of Turok was actually fairly good (to me, at least).

dellamorte · Post by **dellamorte** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:00:11 pm

off topic but if we are talking pre/post birthquake I agree with sonicdan, except I liked the first few issues of X-O. Turok got great again by dumping him back into the lost land, Magnus got good again, Shadowman didn't really change, it was Bob Hall and it was good, Jurgens first five issues of Solar were cool. They cancelled a bunch of worthless books (Hard Corps, Armorines, Psi Lords) before they could get worse (if that is possible).

The worst period to read Valiant was post Chaos/pre Birthquake.

Ax · Post by Ax » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:00:33 pm

I would just like to say that XO#60 (1st appearance of the XO bicycle) was the absolute point of no return for the Valiant universe... end of story. I know I have hinted at this before but I just wanted to make it official.

R Daneel · Post by **R Daneel** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:05:19 am

It has been soooo long since I've read most of my collection that I can't think of any right now. The only stuff I've read recently are the things I know are good!

R Daneel · Post by **R Daneel** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:16:14 am

Never read any of the Broadway stuff ... I think it was just coming out as I made my move to England. I'll have to start watching for series runs on eBay or something.

PS. BOOOOya, tonights mission is complete ... see you tomorrow folks.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:18:06 am

Ok...but if the last issues sucked so bad....why are a good many of us spending so much time trying to track them down and pay money for them? If they have no INTRINSIC value....who cares what the print runs are? Are we THAT embroiled in completist mentality that we won't be able to sleep at night knowing the crap that is the last issues of Magnus isn't in our collections....?

Just a thought....

twofour · Post by **twofour** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:18:44 am

X-O Ringbearer!!! WOW!!!

twofour

dewmaster5708 · Post by **dewmaster5708** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:24:26 am

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:Ok...but if the last issues sucked so bad....why are a good many of us spending so much time trying to track them down and pay money for them? If they have no INTRINSIC value....who cares what the print runs are? Are we THAT embroiled in completist mentality that we won't be able to sleep at night knowing the crap that is the last issues of Magnus isn't in our collections....?

Just a thought....

Most of the comics written around the pre-unity (Shooter Era) were a great read. Killing and radically altering a character like Magnus from his Gold Key/Shooter era roots makes an unenjoyable read. The lack of reader interest in later Valiant Magnus issues attests to this. You could say the same of some other Valiants too.

When writers had Magnus kill all the freewill robots after their help in the Malev War, did this make sense??? Even in the worst events after the malev war, Magnus would have more sense than to slaughter his veteran freewill allies. Not a fun comic to read.

Until one reads Magnus (VH1) through, one can determine whether or not a book sucks with certain writers. Guess one probably will have to buy the issues first to form an opinion. The Jim Shooter issues by consensus are classics

.

Given creative power, I would alter the time line from Magnus #37 onward. Keep the 4002 Magnus version. Get rid of the year 4020 Magnus stories.

Sure would have liked to see "Magnus Manowar" during the Malev stories. Never made sense why he refused the x-o armor either. Billions of human lives are at stake and he is against alien X-O armor??? Could have ended the Malev War earlier.......or at least let another human use it.

myron · Post by **myron** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:33:50 am

dewmaster5708 wrote:
ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:Ok...but if the last issues sucked so bad....why are a good many of us spending so much time trying to track them down and pay money for them? If they have no INTRINSIC value....who cares what the print runs are? Are we THAT embroiled in completist mentality that we won't be able to sleep at night knowing the crap that is the last issues of Magnus isn't in our collections....?

Just a thought....
Most of the comics written around the pre-unity (Shooter Era) were a great read. Killing and radically altering a character like Magnus from his Gold Key/Shooter era roots makes an unenjoyable read. The lack of reader interest in later Valiant Magnus issues attests to this. You could say the same of some other Valiants too.

When writers had Magnus kill all the freewill robots after their help in the Malev War, did this make sense??? Even in the worst events after the malev war, Magnus would have more sense than to slaughter his veteran freewill allies. Not a fun comic to read.

Until one reads Magnus (VH1) through, one can determine whether or not a book sucks with certain writers. Guess one probably will have to buy the issues first to form an opinion. The Jim Shooter issues by consensus are classics .

Given creative power, I would alter the time line from Magnus #37 onward. Keep the 4002 Magnus version. Get rid of the year 4020 Magnus stories.

Sure would have liked to see "Magnus Manowar" during the Malev stories. Never made sense why he refused the x-o armor either. Billions of human lives are at stake and he is against alien X-O armor??? Could have ended the Malev War earlier.......or at least let another human use it.

I've read them all...every stinky one and you are correct. Issue #37 was about the one where you would want to veer from what was done...as for the manowar armor...he didn't trust it ... and Zeph..the only reason I have the later issues is because I got 37-54 for $1 a throw and 55-64 for $2 a throw (now realize I got ripped off on the later ones...c'est la vie)...definitely wouldn't pay anything more for them...

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:24:16 am

dewmaster5708 wrote:
Most of the comics written around the pre-unity (Shooter Era) were a great read. Killing and radically altering a character like Magnus from his Gold Key/Shooter era roots makes an unenjoyable read. The lack of reader interest in later Valiant Magnus issues attests to this. You could say the same of some other Valiants too.

In my mind, the REAL Magnus ended with #20. The whole Malev war and Magnus wearing armor (I mean wtf, he can make his skin hard as steel) just seemed like 'change for the sake of change' that was going on at Valiant after Shooter left, in what seemed to me as a way for the new mangagement to distance itself from Shooter's universe and ideas.

Sure there were some good issues during the whole 'Malev war', but I think the story could have been done better in 6 issues (1 issue if you were Russ Manning) and we could have moved on. There were so many more stories they could have told in the 'old' 4001 North Am, but instead they started down the path that led in the end to stories and characters that weren't even recognizable to the fans.

dave · Post by **dave** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:51:45 pm

i tend to agree with you on that ryan. although, i'm not sure they were trying to distance themselves from shooter so much as they were trying to "give him a new look" to boost sales. from that point (magnus 20) everything seemed to be sales driven.

dewmaster5708 · Post by **dewmaster5708** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:18:16 am

I was able to tolerate the Malev War stories, but this story arc did drag on for eternity. Continuing the stories from 4001 (magnus #20) would be an even better idea. I hereby declare all stories from Magnus #21 onward invalidated!!! Anyone opposed?? Okay, the ayes haves it!!!

Well Myron, at least you did not pay full cover price for those issues. Got lucky in Lansing in 1998 and found most later Magnus issues bagged and borded nicely for 25 cents each.

As for Magnus Manowar..........there was enough data out there for 1A and Magnus to sift though on research over the X-o armor. Magnus, did meet X-O (Aric) during UNITY. What is there not to trust with the X-O armor given some minor testing and historical research??? If the armor was great for a 40th century Nazi, it would be even better for Magnus. Sure Magnus had a bad run in with spider aliens in the early issues of his comic. But given the his power plus the X-O armor would have likely ended the Malev conflict earlier. Yes, he threw away the X-O ring in the Predator mini, but this was pre-Malev war. Given that humans were being killed by thousands every day, Magnus should have been wearing the X-O. Having the X-O ring in 1A was not exactly safe storage

I wouldn't want a permanent Magnus Manowar, but a nice yearlong story arc. By 4001 or more, you think there would be a new X-O class mightier than Manowar........it does take a couple thousand years to grow the armor. Great storyline potential here.

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:12:36 pm

dave · Post by **dave** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 2:28:56 pm

a and a 13...no direction. even worse when you factor in coming right after bws...was this pure filler or what?

Jaknife · Post by **Jaknife** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:22:42 pm

i thought a and a took a huge nosedive when BWS left. why did they have vosburg and baron onit for the whole rest of the series? they killed it. the macrobiotic cult, that is so dumb. and why the hell did they not go back to andromeda?

Sector3600 · Post by **Sector3600** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 1:29:03 pm

Steve G. wrote:...nothing against Magnus, but to get back on topic....

My Top 5:

1. Deathmate Red---Although the whole Deathmate thing seemed good at the time, it turned into a big, stupid mess! Liefeld's "Extremely" late delivery of this book---after the Epilogue was already out!---rates it at my top disappointment. Everyone lost tons of $$ on this book when preorders were cancelled in droves!!

2. Captain Johner & the Aliens #1---where does this fit in?

3. Captain Johner & the Aliens #2---ditto.

4. The Outcast Special---good story, but again, where does THIS fit into the V1 era books?

5. Any of the post-Birthquake twice-a-month crap stories. It was a BIG mistake for Valiant to go to a twice a month schedule on their books. The market was already weak at the time. Acclaim took over, got rid of the weak titles, & then tried to pump double-duty on the core titles until the end of the V1 era.

The time schedule on these issues is what I would assume is the reasoning behind the junk stories. Acclaim actually had better creative teams put together for their Magic the Gathering titles. The Hilderbrandt cover on Homelands was nice, among others, as an example. I also believe that by early 1996, the V2 universe had already been planned, & decided to be re-launched, making the last V1 issues much less important to produce. They even cancelled Ninjak #27, #28, & a two-part Secret Weapons Special, which had already been solicited. It was also at this time that they FINALLY decided not to produce a special "Thank-You" 2-volume bound edition of the Chaos Effect crossover, which they had promised to retailers as an added sales incentive before the company was sold to Acclaim. This disappointed alot of dealers.

Well, there's my list.---Steve G

Captain Johner & the Aliens was another Western/Dell comic that Acclaim/Valiant thought would be a attempt at marketing something else.

If they had Shooter @ the time, maybe Layton or someone could have fit this book better into the Valiant Universe (VH1 or VH2).

I would have loved to see Captain Johner be the first 'group' to have discovered the Spider Alien homeworld or such during the start of the Harbinger Wars. Maybe his team founded the Moon Colony that Bloodshot defended.

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:40:58 pm

Sector3600 · Post by **Sector3600** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:10:41 pm

Steve G. wrote:...Dell/Gold Key/Whitman/Western Publishing had several other good books that might have also fit in well with the Valiant Universe. MIGHTY SAMPSON would have been a good Eternal Warrior tie-in, plus there was BROTHERS OF THE SPEAR, or even M.A.R.S. PATROL. Shooter understood the value of these type of characters. The worst mistake Valiant ever made was firing Jim!
(It ranks up there in mistakes with Marvel's buy-out of Heroes World to form their own distribution network, which not only sucked, it eventually forced them & Capital City (Advance Comics) into bankruptcy, & the bottom falling out of the industry in general....)
---Steve G

They could have had a real gold mine under Shooter