First appearance?

[cjv]

Okay, so I have noticed a price increase in some of the VH1 "first appearance" issues - like Harada, Bloodshot, Spider Aliens, etc. This lead me to the questions of first appearances in VH1 or VEI. Is the first appearance of "Bloodshot" VH1 Eternal Warrior 4 (or 5), or is it VEI Bloodshot 1? Is the first appearance of "Gilad" VEI XO Manowar 1 or VH1 Solar 10?


In your opinion, which of those still be considered the first appearance of characters that appear in VEI?

Argument for VH1: VEI is built directly on the foundation of VH1. Even though the stories/characters are different, they origin lies in the original characters we saw in VH1. As such, the VH1 appearance of a chracter is the true first appearance, regardless how similar or different that are.

Argument for VEI: VEI bought the original characters, but they are doing something completely different with them. They may share the same name and have similarities with the VH1 characters, but they are complete different. So the VH1 appearances of those characters should never be considered the "first appearance".

[caniac]

I kind of think it should be in VH1 but looking at the Price Guide, the 1st appearance of Magnus was in VH1, not Gold Key. Of course Gold Key is not on the Price Guide but VH1 and VEI are. I really feel that the first appearances were in VH1.

[Aram]

I kind of think it should be in VH1 but looking at the Price Guide, the 1st appearance of Magnus was in VH1, not Gold Key. Of course Gold Key is not on the Price Guide but VH1 and VEI are. I really feel that the first appearances were in VH1.

It's both. Gotta catch em all!

[caniac]

I kind of think it should be in VH1 but looking at the Price Guide, the 1st appearance of Magnus was in VH1, not Gold Key. Of course Gold Key is not on the Price Guide but VH1 and VEI are. I really feel that the first appearances were in VH1.

It's both. Gotta catch em all!

Oh I am

[BugsySig]

If it is the same person/character then VH1. But if VEI Bloodshot turns out to be a different person with the same "code name" then use the VEI issue. Like the new minority Spiderman's first appearance was in Ultimate Spiderman whatever, but Spiderman's first appearance is still Amazing Fantasy.

[Aram]

Gold key was a different titled comic from a different company and the characters were licensed not owned.

Valiant is the same titled comics a different company and completely owned. My money will be on vh1 because guides did not change first appearances when acclaim relaunched and they still refered to the valiant name. So slightly different but mostly similar circumstances. Also because VEI is reprinting old stuff as their own so there is another link created there.

[MarrowMan]

Okay, so I have noticed a price increase in some of the VH1 "first appearance" issues - like Harada, Bloodshot, Spider Aliens, etc. This lead me to the questions of first appearances in VH1 or VEI. Is the first appearance of "Bloodshot" VH1 Eternal Warrior 4 (or 5), or is it VEI Bloodshot 1? Is the first appearance of "Gilad" VEI XO Manowar 1 or VH1 Solar 10?


In your opinion, which of those still be considered the first appearance of characters that appear in VEI?

Argument for VH1: VEI is built directly on the foundation of VH1. Even though the stories/characters are different, they origin lies in the original characters we saw in VH1. As such, the VH1 appearance of a chracter is the true first appearance, regardless how similar or different that are.

Argument for VEI: VEI bought the original characters, but they are doing something completely different with them. They may share the same name and have similarities with the VH1 characters, but they are complete different. So the VH1 appearances of those characters should never be considered the "first appearance".

I thought Rai #0 was 1st; Bloodshot

[carter3175]

Rai 0 is Blood shot's 1st app. Eternal Warrior is just a cameo. For anyone really considering getting all the VH1 1st appearances there are ABSOLUTE steals out there that are non.cgc. For $20 I got Rai 0, Shadow man 8, Magnus 7, and Solar 3. Then I got a Harbinger with card for $15. These books are in excellent condition. I know they would get a 9.8 or a 9.6.

[Blood of Heroes]

EW 4 is Bloodshot's first appearance. The Immortal Enemy's too.

[Blood of Heroes]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28430&hilit=bloodshot+appearance

Lousy Kevin Vanhook chiming in. I had forgotten about that.


I still think he's wrong.

[etos45]

For me, the first appearances will always be VH1. Using the Acclaim argument above, I don't think anyone considers those first appearances. If it's a new person playing that character, you might say 1st appearance of blah blah as Shadowman, but I don't think you'd say 1st appearance of Shadowman. In the same notion, I think it's absolutely wrong for the guide to say VH1 is the 1st appearance of Magnus. First, the book is supposed to be a continuation (of sorts) from the Gold Key Magnus, right? Second, I don't even care that it's a new company printing a licensed character, it's still not a real first appearance.

Also, consider DC and the number of reboots they've had. Do you consider it the 1st appearance of Superman every time they start over, or is Action Comics #1 his first appearance? I believe Spider-man had a reboot too in Spider-Man: Chapter One, but I still don't consider that a first appearance. It will always be Amazing Fantasy #15.

[LABRADORIAN]

First appearances are all in original valiant, as an example ...Whiz Comics is the first appearance of Captain Marvel, not DC comics.

[greg]

In the same notion, I think it's absolutely wrong for the guide to say VH1 is the 1st appearance of Magnus.

The full info page is correct, "First Valiant appearance".
http://www.valiantfan.com/valiant/issue.asp?cn=297" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The price guide was a "short version" of the details from the info page, but I've just expanded it.

[FormerReader]

For me, the first appearances will always be VH1. Using the Acclaim argument above, I don't think anyone considers those first appearances. If it's a new person playing that character, you might say 1st appearance of blah blah as Shadowman, but I don't think you'd say 1st appearance of Shadowman. In the same notion, I think it's absolutely wrong for the guide to say VH1 is the 1st appearance of Magnus. First, the book is supposed to be a continuation (of sorts) from the Gold Key Magnus, right? Second, I don't even care that it's a new company printing a licensed character, it's still not a real first appearance.

Also, consider DC and the number of reboots they've had. Do you consider it the 1st appearance of Superman every time they start over, or is Action Comics #1 his first appearance? I believe Spider-man had a reboot too in Spider-Man: Chapter One, but I still don't consider that a first appearance. It will always be Amazing Fantasy #15.

Completely agree.

[Ramses818]

I would also point out for people that when a character makes a return after a long time they note the return...Ala Lois Lane is the 1st app. of silver age Catwoman, or Shazam whatever is first silver age app. of Black Adam. Or they may even put first new Green Arrow etc etc. So I think you have the first app is in VH1 and then 1st app in new books be what ever in VH3. BTW was it ever decided what the new Valiant is? It really feels like VH2 more than Acclaim ever did! lol I know I know..

[BugsySig]

I would also point out for people that when a character makes a return after a long time they note the return...Ala Lois Lane is the 1st app. of silver age Catwoman, or Shazam whatever is first silver age app. of Black Adam. Or they may even put first new Green Arrow etc etc. So I think you have the first app is in VH1 and then 1st app in new books be what ever in VH3. BTW was it ever decided what the new Valiant is? It really feels like VH2 more than Acclaim ever did! lol I know I know..

I think we have been going with either New Valiant (NuVU for some) or VEI (since that is what most of us use to refer to the current incarnation).

[etos45]

I would also point out for people that when a character makes a return after a long time they note the return...Ala Lois Lane is the 1st app. of silver age Catwoman, or Shazam whatever is first silver age app. of Black Adam. Or they may even put first new Green Arrow etc etc. So I think you have the first app is in VH1 and then 1st app in new books be what ever in VH3. BTW was it ever decided what the new Valiant is? It really feels like VH2 more than Acclaim ever did! lol I know I know..

This is difficult for me to answer, because it mostly happened in DC and I have never really been into DC, but it's my understanding that usually the "re-introductions" we completely different than the originals (sometimes different people). I know with Marvel, there were two different Human Torch, I believe the Flash characters were different at DC. I don't know anything about a Catwoman re-intro. With the Valiant characters, they aren't different enough (thank God!) to warrant a new first appearance. It's like beating a dead horse, but I will again refer to Magnus; he was gone from print for a long time, but I think most will agree that Magnus #1 (from Valiant) is not his first appearance.

I know some people want these to be first appearances to make the issues "special", but I just don't think the majority of readers will see it that way.

[Aram]

Given that arguement wouldn't Valiant Solar be first appearance of 2nd Solar as he is a different character than the GK?

[etos45]

Given that arguement wouldn't Valiant Solar be first appearance of 2nd Solar as he is a different character than the GK?

That's why I haven't mentioned him (as well as Turok, because I don't like him ).

I would say that Solar #1 (Valiant) would be 1st Phil Seleski as Solar, but 1st Solar II works as well. I'm just a stickler when it comes to first appearances, because if you give comic companies even the slightest leeway on this then Superman and Spider-man are going to have a new first appearance every other year.

[ECKSRAE]

I believed Bloodshot's 1st appearance was in Rai 0 for the past twenty years ! Then after looking a little bit further a couple months ago, I'm like, "oh, crap! gotta get EW#4 too!

[Dr. Solar]

I believed Bloodshot's 1st appearance was in Rai 0 for the past twenty years ! Then after looking a little bit further a couple months ago, I'm like, "oh, crap! gotta get EW#4 too!

I appreciate this sentiment

[ECKSRAE]

I believed Bloodshot's 1st appearance was in Rai 0 for the past twenty years ! Then after looking a little bit further a couple months ago, I'm like, "oh, crap! gotta get EW#4 too!

I appreciate this sentiment

ha!