Shooter's long-term plans for Valiant

[jrnewto]

I am a major fan of Jim Shooter's original Valiant Universe and what he was setting out to do there after Rai #0.

At the end of their run Shooter and Lapham dropped hints where they were headed so the below could act as a guide for anyone brave enough to make the attempt:)

1. What plans there were for Jillian Alcott (what were the circumstances and who was planned as the perpetrator)?
2. The plans for Andar as Geomancer to tie Turok closer to the Valiant Universe (and how Geoff would die)?
3. The character called Zachariah Muldoon stalking Solar?
4. Our time period’s Rai was never intended to be Bloodshot so what Shooter's plans might have been for our period's Rising Spirit?
5. In Eternal Warrior he had a story planned for the secret of the Harbinger strain revealed, so whether it would reveal Gilad as the forefather of all Harbingers or simply the first one? If so, how!
6. Whether the Laugher in the Dark Master Darque?
7. What the backstory was leading up to Shadowman’s death in 1999?
8. Where in space had Aric sent the X-O armour in Rai #0, and what the plan was behind bringing it back to Earth?

[greg]

Welcome to the board!

This one caught my eye: "6. Whether the Laugher in the Dark Master Darque?"

I'm not sure that Jim Shooter would have had a maniacal villain who was a tall guy with a ponytail... because Jim Shooter was a tall guy with a ponytail.

[jrnewto]

Welcome to the board!

This one caught my eye: "6. Whether the Laugher in the Dark Master Darque?"

I'm not sure that Jim Shooter would have had a maniacal villain who was a tall guy with a ponytail... because Jim Shooter was a tall guy with a ponytail.

Thanks for responding Greg:)

Was his design intended to kick Shooter when he was on his way out the door?

[mrozisik]

Very interesting question. I am also not clear about Shooter's intentions post Rai # 0. Also that issue was severely doctored as well.

Master Darque, Bloodshot, Ivar...I am looking at new key intros immediately post Shooter and have no idea what his intentions were (or contributions)

[jrnewto]

Very interesting question. I am also not clear about Shooter's intentions post Rai # 0. Also that issue was severely doctored as well.

Yep as I said he didn't intend Bloodshot, but rather the character to be dubbed Rising Spirit or Jōshō Seishin.

Master Darque, Bloodshot, Ivar...I am looking at new key intros immediately post Shooter and have no idea what his intentions were (or contributions)

Obviously Master Darque was instead intended as the Laugher in the Dark, Bloodshot Jōshō Seishin and I don't think he intended Gilad and Aram to have another brother.

I do want to know though what his plans were regarding the connection between Gilad and the Harbingers strain though;)

[BugsySig]

I know from a conversation with Joe St. Pierre that the plan originally was not to kill Tohru Nakadi, but instead have him wonder the world with his infant son following Japan's crash back to Earth (His wife would have died in the crash). A sort of "Lone Wolf and Cub" concept but out in the wacky sci fi world of 4001.

[jrnewto]

I know from a conversation with Joe St. Pierre that the plan originally was not to kill Tohru Nakadi, but instead have him wonder the world with his infant son following Japan's crash back to Earth (His wife would have died in the crash). A sort of "Lone Wolf and Cub" concept but out in the wacky sci fi world of 4001.

That would have been awesomely cool. Was that Shooter's idea and who would have written it?

[BugsySig]

I know from a conversation with Joe St. Pierre that the plan originally was not to kill Tohru Nakadi, but instead have him wonder the world with his infant son following Japan's crash back to Earth (His wife would have died in the crash). A sort of "Lone Wolf and Cub" concept but out in the wacky sci fi world of 4001.

That would have been awesomely cool. Was that Shooter's idea and who would have written it?

I'd have to go back and see exactly what Mr. St. Pierre said (it was on another forum). There was a last minute decision to kill Tohru as a big moment/death during Unity so the plans where changed.

I've also approached him about the original Rai #0 version that was scrapped, but I haven't received a reply as of yet (that was about a month ago). Here is the link to the "All Things VALIANT" article on it:

http://allthingsvaliant.blogspot.com/20 ... rsion.html

[BugsySig]

Found it! Here's the quote from Mr. St. Pierre:

I agree Rai had way more potential than his hard copy adventures attested (I feel the same way about 90% of DC's heroes, too--).

I seem to remember Mr. J. Shooter's intent was to move Rai out of Japan right away with his solo series, and wander 4001 earth in adventures similar to Lone Wolf and Cub. This may have been a direction you and Sentinel may have preferred, and would have integrated him more with Magnus' world. Mr. D. Michelinie had a different direction in mind, and it was decided Rai was going to be killed off while I was working on issue #2.

My personal affection toward Rai is the idea of him as a "ceremonial antibody" to the Japanese Society/Organism. His ability to transform/transport anywhere within the organism to solve problems, and the political intrigue potential of someone in such a role trying to keep a divided nation united. This is NBD--never been done in my comics reading experience.

And oh yeah the martial arts action is pretty cool too;)

Joe
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He went on to mention the detail about his son and wife in a later post.

[jrnewto]

My personal affection toward Rai is the idea of him as a "ceremonial antibody" to the Japanese Society/Organism. His ability to transform/transport anywhere within the organism to solve problems, and the political intrigue potential of someone in such a role trying to keep a divided nation united. This is NBD--never been done in my comics reading experience.

And oh yeah the martial arts action is pretty cool too;)

Thanks so much. That is freaking awesome!

[The Dirt Gang]

I know from a conversation with Joe St. Pierre that the plan originally was not to kill Tohru Nakadi, but instead have him wonder the world with his infant son following Japan's crash back to Earth (His wife would have died in the crash). A sort of "Lone Wolf and Cub" concept but out in the wacky sci fi world of 4001.

That would have been great. I think I would have preferred that route although Rai's death in Unity adds a lot to the story. The Lone Wolf & Cub in the future sort of reminds me of this low budget film that came out in '98 called "Six-String Samurai". I thought it was great but I've not seen it in years.

Good topic for a thread!

[nutflush76]

I always wonder how much different things would have turned out for Valiant had Shooter not been forced out. The universe was pretty much his brainchild and the stories started to noticeably decline once he was gone.

Of course a lot of his top level talent left when he did. IIRC

[caniac]

After what I've seen from VEI, I'm glad he is not on board.

[doodlebird]

I always wonder how much different things would have turned out for Valiant had Shooter not been forced out. The universe was pretty much his brainchild and the stories started to noticeably decline once he was gone.

Of course a lot of his top level talent left when he did. IIRC

yep

[The Dirt Gang]

After what I've seen from VEI, I'm glad he is not on board.

Agreed - especially after his Gold Key work with Dark Horse. Where's the vomit emoticon!?!

Nutflush76, I agree with you as well regarding the original universe and I'm also a big fan of Shooter's Defiant and Broadway universes (too a much lesser degree).

[grendeljd]

Fascinating insights into the intended concept for RAI, thanks for sharing that Bugsy! I would have enjoyed reading an LW&C inspired storyline.

I like to wonder 'what if' Shooter had stayed longer back in the VH1 days as well... I think many of the books would have been much better off for a longer period with his editorial influence. And who knows if they would have sold off to Acclaim if he was still steering the ship.

I also think that VEI is doing an outstanding job with the re-launched characters & universe to date, and I don't think Shooter would have fit into this current vision, so I tend to be glad he isn't involved now.

[FormerReader]

Fascinating insights into the intended concept for RAI, thanks for sharing that Bugsy! I would have enjoyed reading an LW&C inspired storyline.

I like to wonder 'what if' Shooter had stayed longer back in the VH1 days as well... I think many of the books would have been much better off for a longer period with his editorial influence. And who knows if they would have sold off to Acclaim if he was still steering the ship.

I also think that VEI is doing an outstanding job with the re-launched characters & universe to date, and I don't think Shooter would have fit into this current vision, so I tend to be glad he isn't involved now.

That's exactly how I feel.

[MoonChild]

I was really enjoying the darkhorse books besides the fact that they didnt usually come out on time!

[etos45]

Fascinating insights into the intended concept for RAI, thanks for sharing that Bugsy! I would have enjoyed reading an LW&C inspired storyline.

I like to wonder 'what if' Shooter had stayed longer back in the VH1 days as well... I think many of the books would have been much better off for a longer period with his editorial influence. And who knows if they would have sold off to Acclaim if he was still steering the ship.

I also think that VEI is doing an outstanding job with the re-launched characters & universe to date, and I don't think Shooter would have fit into this current vision, so I tend to be glad he isn't involved now.

What I think might be interesting for VEI to do (assuming they would/could work with Shooter again) would be to pick up where he left off and do a few "elseworld" issues covering where each series would have gone. Maybe four to six issues of each title.

[Carson]

I was really enjoying the darkhorse books besides the fact that they didnt usually come out on time!

I really enjoyed Shooter's recent Turok and Magnus work.

I bought Solar after the fact but still haven't read them cause I flipped through them and thought they looked pretty terrible. Should I read em? Or will they taint my view of Solar and Shooter?

[orbitalshift]

I was really enjoying the darkhorse books besides the fact that they didnt usually come out on time!

I really enjoyed Shooter's recent Turok and Magnus work.

I bought Solar after the fact but still haven't read them cause I flipped through them and thought they looked pretty terrible. Should I read em? Or will they taint my view of Solar and Shooter?

I say read them. Just keep in mind that the final product didn't always represent the intent of what was written.

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Also, read some of the scripts if you can. The Solar scripts aren't here but some of the others are. I find it interesting to compare the script to the final product.