X-O #14 discussion

[BugsySig]

wait, why are this going to be no time dilation for when Aric returns to Earth?

Shouldn't it be like many years, maybe even hundreds, in the future by the time they arrive at Earth?


I hope they explain this.

There was time dilation on the Colony Ship because they travel at near-light or sub-light speed, likely so they can find habitable planets to take slaves from and leave Plantings behind. When Aric travelled to Loam, and again now back to Earth, he travelled via faster than light speed/hyperdrive. Therefore no time dilation on those trips.

Wait how does traveling at light speed change the whole time space relativity thing? Shouldn't the same laws apply? Basically I mean shouldn't MORE time have passed on earth since he's moving faster in space than before?

Chiclo could explain better, but when you travel through hyperspace, or through a wormhole, you are traveling from Point A to Point B in space instantaneously. So no time passes. When you travel at or near light speed, time loses meaning. It's all relative-ity

Hyperspace does not work that way!

When Aric was travelling on the vine colony ship, it is entirely possible that they were moving at 99.999% (or even closer to) the speed of light. When you move at such significant portions of the speed of light, time starts moving more slowly for you and more quickly around you. Aric may have spent 7 to 10 years on the ship and 1600 years pass around him. Where was the ship going? From what the vine have said, it is unlikely that the colony ship was going back to Loam after it picked up Aric and it was likely following some exploratory course and when Aric broke out of the ship, it is possible that that course just happened to be within our solar system, close enough that he could get to Earth rather quickly without having to move at relativistic speeds (some significant fraction of the speed of light).

When a ship or other object would accelerate to close to the speed of light, several things happen. First, the relativistic mass becomes greater than the resting mass of the vessel. This basically means that as an object moves at some significant fraction of the speed of light, it gains in mass. As an object gains in mass, it requires more energy to accelerate/gain in speed. The closer an object gets to the speed of light, the more the relativistic mass and the more energy that is required to make it go even faster. There is no finite boundary to this growth and mathematically, it would require an infinite amount of energy to make even a speck of dust go faster than the speed of light. The problem is that there is a finite supply of energy and even if all the energy in the universe were used and then all the remaining (yet finite) matter in the universe were converted to energy and that added, we could not push that little speck of dust to or beyond the speed of light.

If, however, you could somehow do it, the time dilation (the effect where time passes more slowly for you and more quickly around you when traveling at relativistic speeds) would finally stop time when an object reached light speed and time would start going backwards as an object moved faster than the speed of light.

Two ways that are commonly shown for traveling within the universe at greater than light speed are hyperspace and warp drive. Warp drive works a lot like the wing of an aircraft but in the fabric of space. Space is compacted ahead of the vessel and stretched behind it and the object moves forward at a non-relativistic speed within its own frame of reference even though it is moving faster than light in the regular universe. This is how Captains Kirk or Picard can take their vessels to the stars to punch Romulans in the face. Hyperspace (while not being instantaneous) involves leaving the universe for another space. If the hyperspace works properly, the two spots that correspond to points A and B in a journey are closer in this other space than they are in our universe and the journey is quicker. Another kicker about this is that when you leave the universe, you also leave our reckoning of time so the time of the vessel's journey in the other universe does not necessarily correspond to how long it took to get from A to B within our universe. Star Wars and Babylon 5 commonly use hyperspace to travel between their stars.

Well, if you have any more questions, I will do my best to answer them. I know I have explained this all better before but who knows where those threads are.

See? Told you Chiclo would explain it better.

[CallMeBloodshot]

wait, why are this going to be no time dilation for when Aric returns to Earth?

Shouldn't it be like many years, maybe even hundreds, in the future by the time they arrive at Earth?


I hope they explain this.

There was time dilation on the Colony Ship because they travel at near-light or sub-light speed, likely so they can find habitable planets to take slaves from and leave Plantings behind. When Aric travelled to Loam, and again now back to Earth, he travelled via faster than light speed/hyperdrive. Therefore no time dilation on those trips.

Wait how does traveling at light speed change the whole time space relativity thing? Shouldn't the same laws apply? Basically I mean shouldn't MORE time have passed on earth since he's moving faster in space than before?

Chiclo could explain better, but when you travel through hyperspace, or through a wormhole, you are traveling from Point A to Point B in space instantaneously. So no time passes. When you travel at or near light speed, time loses meaning. It's all relative-ity

Hyperspace does not work that way!

When Aric was travelling on the vine colony ship, it is entirely possible that they were moving at 99.999% (or even closer to) the speed of light. When you move at such significant portions of the speed of light, time starts moving more slowly for you and more quickly around you. Aric may have spent 7 to 10 years on the ship and 1600 years pass around him. Where was the ship going? From what the vine have said, it is unlikely that the colony ship was going back to Loam after it picked up Aric and it was likely following some exploratory course and when Aric broke out of the ship, it is possible that that course just happened to be within our solar system, close enough that he could get to Earth rather quickly without having to move at relativistic speeds (some significant fraction of the speed of light).

When a ship or other object would accelerate to close to the speed of light, several things happen. First, the relativistic mass becomes greater than the resting mass of the vessel. This basically means that as an object moves at some significant fraction of the speed of light, it gains in mass. As an object gains in mass, it requires more energy to accelerate/gain in speed. The closer an object gets to the speed of light, the more the relativistic mass and the more energy that is required to make it go even faster. There is no finite boundary to this growth and mathematically, it would require an infinite amount of energy to make even a speck of dust go faster than the speed of light. The problem is that there is a finite supply of energy and even if all the energy in the universe were used and then all the remaining (yet finite) matter in the universe were converted to energy and that added, we could not push that little speck of dust to or beyond the speed of light.

If, however, you could somehow do it, the time dilation (the effect where time passes more slowly for you and more quickly around you when traveling at relativistic speeds) would finally stop time when an object reached light speed and time would start going backwards as an object moved faster than the speed of light.

Two ways that are commonly shown for traveling within the universe at greater than light speed are hyperspace and warp drive. Warp drive works a lot like the wing of an aircraft but in the fabric of space. Space is compacted ahead of the vessel and stretched behind it and the object moves forward at a non-relativistic speed within its own frame of reference even though it is moving faster than light in the regular universe. This is how Captains Kirk or Picard can take their vessels to the stars to punch Romulans in the face. Hyperspace (while not being instantaneous) involves leaving the universe for another space. If the hyperspace works properly, the two spots that correspond to points A and B in a journey are closer in this other space than they are in our universe and the journey is quicker. Another kicker about this is that when you leave the universe, you also leave our reckoning of time so the time of the vessel's journey in the other universe does not necessarily correspond to how long it took to get from A to B within our universe. Star Wars and Babylon 5 commonly use hyperspace to travel between their stars.

Well, if you have any more questions, I will do my best to answer them. I know I have explained this all better before but who knows where those threads are.

Thanks for the reply! Especially appreciate it as its a decent amount of work on your part.

I think I'm understanding that a bit better now. But my questions would be:
1) warp drive is impossible, right, as one can not travel faster than light (yeah I didn't pay too much attention in my science classes )
2) why wouldn't the Vine always travel through hyper space? I mean wouldn't that give them more time to experience the benefits of their plantings being in powerful heirarchal positions in other worlds?
3) and this is probably pretty nitpicky on my part but how would Aric know to travel through hyperspace in the first place? How could a Visigoth understand the concept of time dilation? I mean he probably knew something was up upon first arriving to earth, but are we to assume the suit is educating him?

Thanks again for the response!

[BugsySig]

wait, why are this going to be no time dilation for when Aric returns to Earth?

Shouldn't it be like many years, maybe even hundreds, in the future by the time they arrive at Earth?


I hope they explain this.

There was time dilation on the Colony Ship because they travel at near-light or sub-light speed, likely so they can find habitable planets to take slaves from and leave Plantings behind. When Aric travelled to Loam, and again now back to Earth, he travelled via faster than light speed/hyperdrive. Therefore no time dilation on those trips.

Wait how does traveling at light speed change the whole time space relativity thing? Shouldn't the same laws apply? Basically I mean shouldn't MORE time have passed on earth since he's moving faster in space than before?

Chiclo could explain better, but when you travel through hyperspace, or through a wormhole, you are traveling from Point A to Point B in space instantaneously. So no time passes. When you travel at or near light speed, time loses meaning. It's all relative-ity

Hyperspace does not work that way!

When Aric was travelling on the vine colony ship, it is entirely possible that they were moving at 99.999% (or even closer to) the speed of light. When you move at such significant portions of the speed of light, time starts moving more slowly for you and more quickly around you. Aric may have spent 7 to 10 years on the ship and 1600 years pass around him. Where was the ship going? From what the vine have said, it is unlikely that the colony ship was going back to Loam after it picked up Aric and it was likely following some exploratory course and when Aric broke out of the ship, it is possible that that course just happened to be within our solar system, close enough that he could get to Earth rather quickly without having to move at relativistic speeds (some significant fraction of the speed of light).

When a ship or other object would accelerate to close to the speed of light, several things happen. First, the relativistic mass becomes greater than the resting mass of the vessel. This basically means that as an object moves at some significant fraction of the speed of light, it gains in mass. As an object gains in mass, it requires more energy to accelerate/gain in speed. The closer an object gets to the speed of light, the more the relativistic mass and the more energy that is required to make it go even faster. There is no finite boundary to this growth and mathematically, it would require an infinite amount of energy to make even a speck of dust go faster than the speed of light. The problem is that there is a finite supply of energy and even if all the energy in the universe were used and then all the remaining (yet finite) matter in the universe were converted to energy and that added, we could not push that little speck of dust to or beyond the speed of light.

If, however, you could somehow do it, the time dilation (the effect where time passes more slowly for you and more quickly around you when traveling at relativistic speeds) would finally stop time when an object reached light speed and time would start going backwards as an object moved faster than the speed of light.

Two ways that are commonly shown for traveling within the universe at greater than light speed are hyperspace and warp drive. Warp drive works a lot like the wing of an aircraft but in the fabric of space. Space is compacted ahead of the vessel and stretched behind it and the object moves forward at a non-relativistic speed within its own frame of reference even though it is moving faster than light in the regular universe. This is how Captains Kirk or Picard can take their vessels to the stars to punch Romulans in the face. Hyperspace (while not being instantaneous) involves leaving the universe for another space. If the hyperspace works properly, the two spots that correspond to points A and B in a journey are closer in this other space than they are in our universe and the journey is quicker. Another kicker about this is that when you leave the universe, you also leave our reckoning of time so the time of the vessel's journey in the other universe does not necessarily correspond to how long it took to get from A to B within our universe. Star Wars and Babylon 5 commonly use hyperspace to travel between their stars.

Well, if you have any more questions, I will do my best to answer them. I know I have explained this all better before but who knows where those threads are.

Thanks for the reply! Especially appreciate it as its a decent amount of work on your part.

I think I'm understanding that a bit better now. But my questions would be:
1) warp drive is impossible, right, as one can not travel faster than light (yeah I didn't pay too much attention in my science classes )
2) why wouldn't the Vine always travel through hyper space? I mean wouldn't that give them more time to experience the benefits of their plantings being in powerful heirarchal positions in other worlds?
3) and this is probably pretty nitpicky on my part but how would Aric know to travel through hyperspace in the first place? How could a Visigoth understand the concept of time dilation? I mean he probably knew something was up upon first arriving to earth, but are we to assume the suit is educating him?

Thanks again for the response!

I can't answer #1, but as for 2 and 3: Moving through hyperspace isn't good for exploration unless you already know where you are going. You could very easily miss a planet or an entire system. Also, I believe Shanhara is providing Aric with the knowledge he needs in order to operate the Vine ship(s).

[Blood of Heroes]

They don't seem to have a problem with this on Star Trek. Maybe they are using those rules.

[CallMeBloodshot]

There was time dilation on the Colony Ship because they travel at near-light or sub-light speed, likely so they can find habitable planets to take slaves from and leave Plantings behind. When Aric travelled to Loam, and again now back to Earth, he travelled via faster than light speed/hyperdrive. Therefore no time dilation on those trips.

Wait how does traveling at light speed change the whole time space relativity thing? Shouldn't the same laws apply? Basically I mean shouldn't MORE time have passed on earth since he's moving faster in space than before?

Chiclo could explain better, but when you travel through hyperspace, or through a wormhole, you are traveling from Point A to Point B in space instantaneously. So no time passes. When you travel at or near light speed, time loses meaning. It's all relative-ity

Hyperspace does not work that way!

When Aric was travelling on the vine colony ship, it is entirely possible that they were moving at 99.999% (or even closer to) the speed of light. When you move at such significant portions of the speed of light, time starts moving more slowly for you and more quickly around you. Aric may have spent 7 to 10 years on the ship and 1600 years pass around him. Where was the ship going? From what the vine have said, it is unlikely that the colony ship was going back to Loam after it picked up Aric and it was likely following some exploratory course and when Aric broke out of the ship, it is possible that that course just happened to be within our solar system, close enough that he could get to Earth rather quickly without having to move at relativistic speeds (some significant fraction of the speed of light).

When a ship or other object would accelerate to close to the speed of light, several things happen. First, the relativistic mass becomes greater than the resting mass of the vessel. This basically means that as an object moves at some significant fraction of the speed of light, it gains in mass. As an object gains in mass, it requires more energy to accelerate/gain in speed. The closer an object gets to the speed of light, the more the relativistic mass and the more energy that is required to make it go even faster. There is no finite boundary to this growth and mathematically, it would require an infinite amount of energy to make even a speck of dust go faster than the speed of light. The problem is that there is a finite supply of energy and even if all the energy in the universe were used and then all the remaining (yet finite) matter in the universe were converted to energy and that added, we could not push that little speck of dust to or beyond the speed of light.

If, however, you could somehow do it, the time dilation (the effect where time passes more slowly for you and more quickly around you when traveling at relativistic speeds) would finally stop time when an object reached light speed and time would start going backwards as an object moved faster than the speed of light.

Two ways that are commonly shown for traveling within the universe at greater than light speed are hyperspace and warp drive. Warp drive works a lot like the wing of an aircraft but in the fabric of space. Space is compacted ahead of the vessel and stretched behind it and the object moves forward at a non-relativistic speed within its own frame of reference even though it is moving faster than light in the regular universe. This is how Captains Kirk or Picard can take their vessels to the stars to punch Romulans in the face. Hyperspace (while not being instantaneous) involves leaving the universe for another space. If the hyperspace works properly, the two spots that correspond to points A and B in a journey are closer in this other space than they are in our universe and the journey is quicker. Another kicker about this is that when you leave the universe, you also leave our reckoning of time so the time of the vessel's journey in the other universe does not necessarily correspond to how long it took to get from A to B within our universe. Star Wars and Babylon 5 commonly use hyperspace to travel between their stars.

Well, if you have any more questions, I will do my best to answer them. I know I have explained this all better before but who knows where those threads are.

Thanks for the reply! Especially appreciate it as its a decent amount of work on your part.

I think I'm understanding that a bit better now. But my questions would be:
1) warp drive is impossible, right, as one can not travel faster than light (yeah I didn't pay too much attention in my science classes )
2) why wouldn't the Vine always travel through hyper space? I mean wouldn't that give them more time to experience the benefits of their plantings being in powerful heirarchal positions in other worlds?
3) and this is probably pretty nitpicky on my part but how would Aric know to travel through hyperspace in the first place? How could a Visigoth understand the concept of time dilation? I mean he probably knew something was up upon first arriving to earth, but are we to assume the suit is educating him?

Thanks again for the response!

I can't answer #1, but as for 2 and 3: Moving through hyperspace isn't good for exploration unless you already know where you are going. You could very easily miss a planet or an entire system. Also, I believe Shanhara is providing Aric with the knowledge he needs in order to operate the Vine ship(s).

In response to #2: if anyone was sure of where they were going it would be the Vine though. They seem very thought out with ther plans and where thy put plantings. Not a huge discrepancy, just saying that its rare that writers ever make sense of these things in their storytelling. It's be nice if it was mentioned at some point in the future as to why they would want to allow for so much time to pass. This time dilation is a big contributor to the story of X-O and the plight of Aric, so I think it bears paying some attention to. I have full trust in V ditti

[lorddunlow]

wait, why are this going to be no time dilation for when Aric returns to Earth?

Shouldn't it be like many years, maybe even hundreds, in the future by the time they arrive at Earth?


I hope they explain this.

There was time dilation on the Colony Ship because they travel at near-light or sub-light speed, likely so they can find habitable planets to take slaves from and leave Plantings behind. When Aric travelled to Loam, and again now back to Earth, he travelled via faster than light speed/hyperdrive. Therefore no time dilation on those trips.

Wait how does traveling at light speed change the whole time space relativity thing? Shouldn't the same laws apply? Basically I mean shouldn't MORE time have passed on earth since he's moving faster in space than before?

Chiclo could explain better, but when you travel through hyperspace, or through a wormhole, you are traveling from Point A to Point B in space instantaneously. So no time passes. When you travel at or near light speed, time loses meaning. It's all relative-ity

Hyperspace does not work that way!

When Aric was travelling on the vine colony ship, it is entirely possible that they were moving at 99.999% (or even closer to) the speed of light. When you move at such significant portions of the speed of light, time starts moving more slowly for you and more quickly around you. Aric may have spent 7 to 10 years on the ship and 1600 years pass around him. Where was the ship going? From what the vine have said, it is unlikely that the colony ship was going back to Loam after it picked up Aric and it was likely following some exploratory course and when Aric broke out of the ship, it is possible that that course just happened to be within our solar system, close enough that he could get to Earth rather quickly without having to move at relativistic speeds (some significant fraction of the speed of light).

When a ship or other object would accelerate to close to the speed of light, several things happen. First, the relativistic mass becomes greater than the resting mass of the vessel. This basically means that as an object moves at some significant fraction of the speed of light, it gains in mass. As an object gains in mass, it requires more energy to accelerate/gain in speed. The closer an object gets to the speed of light, the more the relativistic mass and the more energy that is required to make it go even faster. There is no finite boundary to this growth and mathematically, it would require an infinite amount of energy to make even a speck of dust go faster than the speed of light. The problem is that there is a finite supply of energy and even if all the energy in the universe were used and then all the remaining (yet finite) matter in the universe were converted to energy and that added, we could not push that little speck of dust to or beyond the speed of light.

If, however, you could somehow do it, the time dilation (the effect where time passes more slowly for you and more quickly around you when traveling at relativistic speeds) would finally stop time when an object reached light speed and time would start going backwards as an object moved faster than the speed of light.

Two ways that are commonly shown for traveling within the universe at greater than light speed are hyperspace and warp drive. Warp drive works a lot like the wing of an aircraft but in the fabric of space. Space is compacted ahead of the vessel and stretched behind it and the object moves forward at a non-relativistic speed within its own frame of reference even though it is moving faster than light in the regular universe. This is how Captains Kirk or Picard can take their vessels to the stars to punch Romulans in the face. Hyperspace (while not being instantaneous) involves leaving the universe for another space. If the hyperspace works properly, the two spots that correspond to points A and B in a journey are closer in this other space than they are in our universe and the journey is quicker. Another kicker about this is that when you leave the universe, you also leave our reckoning of time so the time of the vessel's journey in the other universe does not necessarily correspond to how long it took to get from A to B within our universe. Star Wars and Babylon 5 commonly use hyperspace to travel between their stars.

Well, if you have any more questions, I will do my best to answer them. I know I have explained this all better before but who knows where those threads are.

Thanks for the reply! Especially appreciate it as its a decent amount of work on your part.

I think I'm understanding that a bit better now. But my questions would be:
1) warp drive is impossible, right, as one can not travel faster than light (yeah I didn't pay too much attention in my science classes )
2) why wouldn't the Vine always travel through hyper space? I mean wouldn't that give them more time to experience the benefits of their plantings being in powerful heirarchal positions in other worlds?
3) and this is probably pretty nitpicky on my part but how would Aric know to travel through hyperspace in the first place? How could a Visigoth understand the concept of time dilation? I mean he probably knew something was up upon first arriving to earth, but are we to assume the suit is educating him?

Thanks again for the response!

As for #1, warp drive isn't technically moving faster than light. You are manipulating space to cross a distance from point A to point B that seems like you are moving faster than light. The actual ship never moves faster than light (and in fact doesn't have to move at all. Space is bent around the ship to move from one point to the next.

[CallMeBloodshot]

There was time dilation on the Colony Ship because they travel at near-light or sub-light speed, likely so they can find habitable planets to take slaves from and leave Plantings behind. When Aric travelled to Loam, and again now back to Earth, he travelled via faster than light speed/hyperdrive. Therefore no time dilation on those trips.

Wait how does traveling at light speed change the whole time space relativity thing? Shouldn't the same laws apply? Basically I mean shouldn't MORE time have passed on earth since he's moving faster in space than before?

Chiclo could explain better, but when you travel through hyperspace, or through a wormhole, you are traveling from Point A to Point B in space instantaneously. So no time passes. When you travel at or near light speed, time loses meaning. It's all relative-ity

Hyperspace does not work that way!

When Aric was travelling on the vine colony ship, it is entirely possible that they were moving at 99.999% (or even closer to) the speed of light. When you move at such significant portions of the speed of light, time starts moving more slowly for you and more quickly around you. Aric may have spent 7 to 10 years on the ship and 1600 years pass around him. Where was the ship going? From what the vine have said, it is unlikely that the colony ship was going back to Loam after it picked up Aric and it was likely following some exploratory course and when Aric broke out of the ship, it is possible that that course just happened to be within our solar system, close enough that he could get to Earth rather quickly without having to move at relativistic speeds (some significant fraction of the speed of light).

When a ship or other object would accelerate to close to the speed of light, several things happen. First, the relativistic mass becomes greater than the resting mass of the vessel. This basically means that as an object moves at some significant fraction of the speed of light, it gains in mass. As an object gains in mass, it requires more energy to accelerate/gain in speed. The closer an object gets to the speed of light, the more the relativistic mass and the more energy that is required to make it go even faster. There is no finite boundary to this growth and mathematically, it would require an infinite amount of energy to make even a speck of dust go faster than the speed of light. The problem is that there is a finite supply of energy and even if all the energy in the universe were used and then all the remaining (yet finite) matter in the universe were converted to energy and that added, we could not push that little speck of dust to or beyond the speed of light.

If, however, you could somehow do it, the time dilation (the effect where time passes more slowly for you and more quickly around you when traveling at relativistic speeds) would finally stop time when an object reached light speed and time would start going backwards as an object moved faster than the speed of light.

Two ways that are commonly shown for traveling within the universe at greater than light speed are hyperspace and warp drive. Warp drive works a lot like the wing of an aircraft but in the fabric of space. Space is compacted ahead of the vessel and stretched behind it and the object moves forward at a non-relativistic speed within its own frame of reference even though it is moving faster than light in the regular universe. This is how Captains Kirk or Picard can take their vessels to the stars to punch Romulans in the face. Hyperspace (while not being instantaneous) involves leaving the universe for another space. If the hyperspace works properly, the two spots that correspond to points A and B in a journey are closer in this other space than they are in our universe and the journey is quicker. Another kicker about this is that when you leave the universe, you also leave our reckoning of time so the time of the vessel's journey in the other universe does not necessarily correspond to how long it took to get from A to B within our universe. Star Wars and Babylon 5 commonly use hyperspace to travel between their stars.

Well, if you have any more questions, I will do my best to answer them. I know I have explained this all better before but who knows where those threads are.

Thanks for the reply! Especially appreciate it as its a decent amount of work on your part.

I think I'm understanding that a bit better now. But my questions would be:
1) warp drive is impossible, right, as one can not travel faster than light (yeah I didn't pay too much attention in my science classes )
2) why wouldn't the Vine always travel through hyper space? I mean wouldn't that give them more time to experience the benefits of their plantings being in powerful heirarchal positions in other worlds?
3) and this is probably pretty nitpicky on my part but how would Aric know to travel through hyperspace in the first place? How could a Visigoth understand the concept of time dilation? I mean he probably knew something was up upon first arriving to earth, but are we to assume the suit is educating him?

Thanks again for the response!

As for #1, warp drive isn't technically moving faster than light. You are manipulating space to cross a distance from point A to point B that seems like you are moving faster than light. The actual ship never moves faster than light (and in fact doesn't have to move at all. Space is bent around the ship to move from one point to the next.

Ok gotcha

I mostly just meant that its impossible

[lorddunlow]

In Brian Greene's The Physics of Star Trek, he explains both warp drive and impulse engines. He concludes that warp propulsion is much more feasible than impulse. It really is a very interesting book.

[Chiclo]

Thanks for the reply! Especially appreciate it as its a decent amount of work on your part.

I think I'm understanding that a bit better now. But my questions would be:
1) warp drive is impossible, right, as one can not travel faster than light (yeah I didn't pay too much attention in my science classes )
2) why wouldn't the Vine always travel through hyper space? I mean wouldn't that give them more time to experience the benefits of their plantings being in powerful heirarchal positions in other worlds?
3) and this is probably pretty nitpicky on my part but how would Aric know to travel through hyperspace in the first place? How could a Visigoth understand the concept of time dilation? I mean he probably knew something was up upon first arriving to earth, but are we to assume the suit is educating him?

Thanks again for the response!

1 - I would not think warp drive is any less possible than any of the other marvelous technologies that the crew of the Enterprise uses daily. Certainly warp drive is no less plausible than hyperspace, where you actually leave the universe and everything within it.

2 - One reason that comes to mind to travel within the universe rather than through hyperspace is to let the plants aboard the colony ship grow. Maybe it is so inefficient to use the hyperspace that they only use it in emergencies? Like the energy drain upon the ship is unrecoverable. Maybe the reason why is alien to our reasoning.

3 - As has been said before, I suspect that Aric gives the armor a command like "take me home" and Shanhara fills in the gaps. Special relativity as a scientific discipline was not developed on Earth for half a millennium following Aric's abduction.

[CallMeBloodshot]

Thanks for the reply! Especially appreciate it as its a decent amount of work on your part.

I think I'm understanding that a bit better now. But my questions would be:
1) warp drive is impossible, right, as one can not travel faster than light (yeah I didn't pay too much attention in my science classes )
2) why wouldn't the Vine always travel through hyper space? I mean wouldn't that give them more time to experience the benefits of their plantings being in powerful heirarchal positions in other worlds?
3) and this is probably pretty nitpicky on my part but how would Aric know to travel through hyperspace in the first place? How could a Visigoth understand the concept of time dilation? I mean he probably knew something was up upon first arriving to earth, but are we to assume the suit is educating him?

Thanks again for the response!

1 - I would not think warp drive is any less possible than any of the other marvelous technologies that the crew of the Enterprise uses daily. Certainly warp drive is no less plausible than hyperspace, where you actually leave the universe and everything within it.

2 - One reason that comes to mind to travel within the universe rather than through hyperspace is to let the plants aboard the colony ship grow. Maybe it is so inefficient to use the hyperspace that they only use it in emergencies? Like the energy drain upon the ship is unrecoverable. Maybe the reason why is alien to our reasoning.

3 - As has been said before, I suspect that Aric gives the armor a command like "take me home" and Shanhara fills in the gaps. Special relativity as a scientific discipline was not developed on Earth for half a millennium following Aric's abduction.

I guess all this speculation leads me to stand by this notion that it wasn't explained all that well. Since the time dilation plays a large part in the first arc and the plight of the main character (the whole man out of time concept), you would then expect them to explain why or why not it wouldn't happen again in other situations. Overall I very much enjoyed Planet Death, though.

[erwinrafael]

Thanks for the reply! Especially appreciate it as its a decent amount of work on your part.

I think I'm understanding that a bit better now. But my questions would be:
1) warp drive is impossible, right, as one can not travel faster than light (yeah I didn't pay too much attention in my science classes )
2) why wouldn't the Vine always travel through hyper space? I mean wouldn't that give them more time to experience the benefits of their plantings being in powerful heirarchal positions in other worlds?
3) and this is probably pretty nitpicky on my part but how would Aric know to travel through hyperspace in the first place? How could a Visigoth understand the concept of time dilation? I mean he probably knew something was up upon first arriving to earth, but are we to assume the suit is educating him?

Thanks again for the response!

1 - I would not think warp drive is any less possible than any of the other marvelous technologies that the crew of the Enterprise uses daily. Certainly warp drive is no less plausible than hyperspace, where you actually leave the universe and everything within it.

2 - One reason that comes to mind to travel within the universe rather than through hyperspace is to let the plants aboard the colony ship grow. Maybe it is so inefficient to use the hyperspace that they only use it in emergencies? Like the energy drain upon the ship is unrecoverable. Maybe the reason why is alien to our reasoning.

3 - As has been said before, I suspect that Aric gives the armor a command like "take me home" and Shanhara fills in the gaps. Special relativity as a scientific discipline was not developed on Earth for half a millennium following Aric's abduction.

I guess all this speculation leads me to stand by this notion that it wasn't explained all that well. Since the time dilation plays a large part in the first arc and the plight of the main character (the whole man out of time concept), you would then expect them to explain why or why not it wouldn't happen again in other situations. Overall I very much enjoyed Planet Death, though.

Why does this need to be explained? Personally, I find the lack of explanation compelling because it allows us to get into Aric's experience of not knowing how Shanhara and all this advanced alien technology really works.

X-O Manowar's first "year" (although it reached 14 issues so not exactly a year) touched on the theme of not knowing vs. knowing, about faith and belief vs. skeptic realism. I love how Venditti in this issue showed how the Council used a scientific objective stance to see clearly their lack of knowledge about Shanhara and how faith and religion performed the function of filling in this lack of knowledge and of serving as a unifying force for the Vine. In the end, the Council's objectivity, their knowingness, can not save them and the power of faith and belief won out.

Looking back, I find the theme of faith and belief actually laced throughout the X-O Manowar run so far. Aric's "brashness" is borne out of a conviction that he will always find a way to win, that he will get what he deserves. Gafti placed much faith in Aric. The same can be said for all the Visigoths, the prisoners in the Vine ship, and the different races in Loam who followed his lead. Aric's belief that he will see Deidre again is what kept him alive while he was on the Vine colony ship. Many times in the series, belief and faith lost but in the end, belief and faith is what allowed Aric to become what he was destined to be: a king.

Which is basically me saying that if you want to enjoy a fictional series of a 5th-century Visigoth wearing a futuristic suit of armor in modern times, the trick is to believe and have faith that the creative team will take us on a nice ride.

[CallMeBloodshot]

Thanks for the reply! Especially appreciate it as its a decent amount of work on your part.

I think I'm understanding that a bit better now. But my questions would be:
1) warp drive is impossible, right, as one can not travel faster than light (yeah I didn't pay too much attention in my science classes )
2) why wouldn't the Vine always travel through hyper space? I mean wouldn't that give them more time to experience the benefits of their plantings being in powerful heirarchal positions in other worlds?
3) and this is probably pretty nitpicky on my part but how would Aric know to travel through hyperspace in the first place? How could a Visigoth understand the concept of time dilation? I mean he probably knew something was up upon first arriving to earth, but are we to assume the suit is educating him?

Thanks again for the response!

1 - I would not think warp drive is any less possible than any of the other marvelous technologies that the crew of the Enterprise uses daily. Certainly warp drive is no less plausible than hyperspace, where you actually leave the universe and everything within it.

2 - One reason that comes to mind to travel within the universe rather than through hyperspace is to let the plants aboard the colony ship grow. Maybe it is so inefficient to use the hyperspace that they only use it in emergencies? Like the energy drain upon the ship is unrecoverable. Maybe the reason why is alien to our reasoning.

3 - As has been said before, I suspect that Aric gives the armor a command like "take me home" and Shanhara fills in the gaps. Special relativity as a scientific discipline was not developed on Earth for half a millennium following Aric's abduction.

I guess all this speculation leads me to stand by this notion that it wasn't explained all that well. Since the time dilation plays a large part in the first arc and the plight of the main character (the whole man out of time concept), you would then expect them to explain why or why not it wouldn't happen again in other situations. Overall I very much enjoyed Planet Death, though.

Why does this need to be explained? Personally, I find the lack of explanation compelling because it allows us to get into Aric's experience of not knowing how Shanhara and all this advanced alien technology really works.

X-O Manowar's first "year" (although it reached 14 issues so not exactly a year) touched on the theme of not knowing vs. knowing, about faith and belief vs. skeptic realism. I love how Venditti in this issue showed how the Council used a scientific objective stance to see clearly their lack of knowledge about Shanhara and how faith and religion performed the function of filling in this lack of knowledge and of serving as a unifying force for the Vine. In the end, the Council's objectivity, their knowingness, can not save them and the power of faith and belief won out.

Looking back, I find the theme of faith and belief actually laced throughout the X-O Manowar run so far. Aric's "brashness" is borne out of a conviction that he will always find a way to win, that he will get what he deserves. Gafti placed much faith in Aric. The same can be said for all the Visigoths, the prisoners in the Vine ship, and the different races in Loam who followed his lead. Aric's belief that he will see Deidre again is what kept him alive while he was on the Vine colony ship. Many times in the series, belief and faith lost but in the end, belief and faith is what allowed Aric to become what he was destined to be: a king.

Which is basically me saying that if you want to enjoy a fictional series of a 5th-century Visigoth wearing a futuristic suit of armor in modern times, the trick is to believe and have faith that the creative team will take us on a nice ride.

Hmm I got something completely different from the story. This whole idea of faith and religiosity on part of the Vine is well explained in the final issue of the Planet Death arc. As the one Vine member says, people create explanations for things that are unknowable. So having "faith" didn't win the day at all other than to spare the lives of those willing to worship Aric as some type of God. But as we know Aric is not special. Gafti was able to claim the armor as his own. And as that same Vine alien said, only Vine can't wear it. From this interpretation there's nothing worthy about being able to wear the armor at all. The way the priest and his followers are saved in the end is actually quite comic even. It's blind buffoonery and their embracing of their own subjugation that unwittingly keeps them from being killed. It's actually a very interesting/darkly humorous concept V Ditti is exploring here.

But anyway, he doesn't have to explain the time dilation all the time. But the story would have been more solid had it been addressed, even briefly. That's my opinion anyway, as it was a bit confusing.

[erwinrafael]

Thanks for the reply! Especially appreciate it as its a decent amount of work on your part.

I think I'm understanding that a bit better now. But my questions would be:
1) warp drive is impossible, right, as one can not travel faster than light (yeah I didn't pay too much attention in my science classes )
2) why wouldn't the Vine always travel through hyper space? I mean wouldn't that give them more time to experience the benefits of their plantings being in powerful heirarchal positions in other worlds?
3) and this is probably pretty nitpicky on my part but how would Aric know to travel through hyperspace in the first place? How could a Visigoth understand the concept of time dilation? I mean he probably knew something was up upon first arriving to earth, but are we to assume the suit is educating him?

Thanks again for the response!

1 - I would not think warp drive is any less possible than any of the other marvelous technologies that the crew of the Enterprise uses daily. Certainly warp drive is no less plausible than hyperspace, where you actually leave the universe and everything within it.

2 - One reason that comes to mind to travel within the universe rather than through hyperspace is to let the plants aboard the colony ship grow. Maybe it is so inefficient to use the hyperspace that they only use it in emergencies? Like the energy drain upon the ship is unrecoverable. Maybe the reason why is alien to our reasoning.

3 - As has been said before, I suspect that Aric gives the armor a command like "take me home" and Shanhara fills in the gaps. Special relativity as a scientific discipline was not developed on Earth for half a millennium following Aric's abduction.

I guess all this speculation leads me to stand by this notion that it wasn't explained all that well. Since the time dilation plays a large part in the first arc and the plight of the main character (the whole man out of time concept), you would then expect them to explain why or why not it wouldn't happen again in other situations. Overall I very much enjoyed Planet Death, though.

Why does this need to be explained? Personally, I find the lack of explanation compelling because it allows us to get into Aric's experience of not knowing how Shanhara and all this advanced alien technology really works.

X-O Manowar's first "year" (although it reached 14 issues so not exactly a year) touched on the theme of not knowing vs. knowing, about faith and belief vs. skeptic realism. I love how Venditti in this issue showed how the Council used a scientific objective stance to see clearly their lack of knowledge about Shanhara and how faith and religion performed the function of filling in this lack of knowledge and of serving as a unifying force for the Vine. In the end, the Council's objectivity, their knowingness, can not save them and the power of faith and belief won out.

Looking back, I find the theme of faith and belief actually laced throughout the X-O Manowar run so far. Aric's "brashness" is borne out of a conviction that he will always find a way to win, that he will get what he deserves. Gafti placed much faith in Aric. The same can be said for all the Visigoths, the prisoners in the Vine ship, and the different races in Loam who followed his lead. Aric's belief that he will see Deidre again is what kept him alive while he was on the Vine colony ship. Many times in the series, belief and faith lost but in the end, belief and faith is what allowed Aric to become what he was destined to be: a king.

Which is basically me saying that if you want to enjoy a fictional series of a 5th-century Visigoth wearing a futuristic suit of armor in modern times, the trick is to believe and have faith that the creative team will take us on a nice ride.

Hmm I got something completely different from the story. This whole idea of faith and religiosity on part of the Vine is well explained in the final issue of the Planet Death arc. As the one Vine member says, people create explanations for things that are unknowable. So having "faith" didn't win the day at all other than to spare the lives of those willing to worship Aric as some type of God. But as we know Aric is not special. Gafti was able to claim the armor as his own. And as that same Vine alien said, only Vine can't wear it. From this interpretation there's nothing worthy about being able to wear the armor at all. The way the priest and his followers are saved in the end is actually quite comic even. It's blind buffoonery and their embracing of their own subjugation that unwittingly keeps them from being killed. It's actually a very interesting/darkly humorous concept V Ditti is exploring here.

But anyway, he doesn't have to explain the time dilation all the time. But the story would have been more solid had it been addressed, even briefly. That's my opinion anyway, as it was a bit confusing.

I love the sociological explanation of the Vine religion (being a sociologist myself) that was expounded by the Council member. But I also love that V-Ditti showed that having knowledge is not necessarily a good thing as opposed to having faith, no matter how misguided from a skeptic realist point of view. The Council members may be correct in their analysis of the situation but in the end it did not save them. I would not label the actions of the surviving Vine as buffoonery. Buffoonery is being so blinded by the power of knowing the "truth" that your actions lead to your own demise.

[CallMeBloodshot]

Thanks for the reply! Especially appreciate it as its a decent amount of work on your part.

I think I'm understanding that a bit better now. But my questions would be:
1) warp drive is impossible, right, as one can not travel faster than light (yeah I didn't pay too much attention in my science classes )
2) why wouldn't the Vine always travel through hyper space? I mean wouldn't that give them more time to experience the benefits of their plantings being in powerful heirarchal positions in other worlds?
3) and this is probably pretty nitpicky on my part but how would Aric know to travel through hyperspace in the first place? How could a Visigoth understand the concept of time dilation? I mean he probably knew something was up upon first arriving to earth, but are we to assume the suit is educating him?

Thanks again for the response!

1 - I would not think warp drive is any less possible than any of the other marvelous technologies that the crew of the Enterprise uses daily. Certainly warp drive is no less plausible than hyperspace, where you actually leave the universe and everything within it.

2 - One reason that comes to mind to travel within the universe rather than through hyperspace is to let the plants aboard the colony ship grow. Maybe it is so inefficient to use the hyperspace that they only use it in emergencies? Like the energy drain upon the ship is unrecoverable. Maybe the reason why is alien to our reasoning.

3 - As has been said before, I suspect that Aric gives the armor a command like "take me home" and Shanhara fills in the gaps. Special relativity as a scientific discipline was not developed on Earth for half a millennium following Aric's abduction.

I guess all this speculation leads me to stand by this notion that it wasn't explained all that well. Since the time dilation plays a large part in the first arc and the plight of the main character (the whole man out of time concept), you would then expect them to explain why or why not it wouldn't happen again in other situations. Overall I very much enjoyed Planet Death, though.

Why does this need to be explained? Personally, I find the lack of explanation compelling because it allows us to get into Aric's experience of not knowing how Shanhara and all this advanced alien technology really works.

X-O Manowar's first "year" (although it reached 14 issues so not exactly a year) touched on the theme of not knowing vs. knowing, about faith and belief vs. skeptic realism. I love how Venditti in this issue showed how the Council used a scientific objective stance to see clearly their lack of knowledge about Shanhara and how faith and religion performed the function of filling in this lack of knowledge and of serving as a unifying force for the Vine. In the end, the Council's objectivity, their knowingness, can not save them and the power of faith and belief won out.

Looking back, I find the theme of faith and belief actually laced throughout the X-O Manowar run so far. Aric's "brashness" is borne out of a conviction that he will always find a way to win, that he will get what he deserves. Gafti placed much faith in Aric. The same can be said for all the Visigoths, the prisoners in the Vine ship, and the different races in Loam who followed his lead. Aric's belief that he will see Deidre again is what kept him alive while he was on the Vine colony ship. Many times in the series, belief and faith lost but in the end, belief and faith is what allowed Aric to become what he was destined to be: a king.

Which is basically me saying that if you want to enjoy a fictional series of a 5th-century Visigoth wearing a futuristic suit of armor in modern times, the trick is to believe and have faith that the creative team will take us on a nice ride.

Hmm I got something completely different from the story. This whole idea of faith and religiosity on part of the Vine is well explained in the final issue of the Planet Death arc. As the one Vine member says, people create explanations for things that are unknowable. So having "faith" didn't win the day at all other than to spare the lives of those willing to worship Aric as some type of God. But as we know Aric is not special. Gafti was able to claim the armor as his own. And as that same Vine alien said, only Vine can't wear it. From this interpretation there's nothing worthy about being able to wear the armor at all. The way the priest and his followers are saved in the end is actually quite comic even. It's blind buffoonery and their embracing of their own subjugation that unwittingly keeps them from being killed. It's actually a very interesting/darkly humorous concept V Ditti is exploring here.

But anyway, he doesn't have to explain the time dilation all the time. But the story would have been more solid had it been addressed, even briefly. That's my opinion anyway, as it was a bit confusing.

I love the sociological explanation of the Vine religion (being a sociologist myself) that was expounded by the Council member. But I also love that V-Ditti showed that having knowledge is not necessarily a good thing as opposed to having faith, no matter how misguided from a skeptic realist point of view. The Council members may be correct in their analysis of the situation but in the end it did not save them. I would not label the actions of the surviving Vine as buffoonery. Buffoonery is being so blinded by the power of knowing the "truth" that your actions lead to your own demise.

Yes the council members were correct as you say, but them not being saved was about them beig bad people who enslaved others. It has nothing to do with faith. Those who worship the Shanhara would have been spared simply by using deductive reasoning. A floating sentient machine that bonds with another to become a deathbringer of catastrophic proportions is enough to suspect one might want to respect the tech. Then being spared is just luck and representative of them not coming to that conclusion rationally. So in result its actually quite funny as their submissive nature is what really unwittingly saves them. Not because they were smarter, but because they were so willing to serve. I wouldn't say this story at all means that having faith wins out over knowledge, as you seem to say. It's that if you happen to worship a raging warrior, death-bringing Visigoth he might actually spare your life.

[erwinrafael]

Yes the council members were correct as you say, but them not being saved was about them beig bad people who enslaved others. It has nothing to do with faith. Those who worship the Shanhara would have been spared simply by using deductive reasoning. A floating sentient machine that bonds with another to become a deathbringer of catastrophic proportions is enough to suspect one might want to respect the tech. Then being spared is just luck and representative of them not coming to that conclusion rationally. So in result its actually quite funny as their submissive nature is what really unwittingly saves them. Not because they were smarter, but because they were so willing to serve. I wouldn't say this story at all means that having faith wins out over knowledge, as you seem to say. It's that if you happen to worship a raging warrior, death-bringing Visigoth he might actually spare your life.

I would also get that impression if we isolate the Planet Death arc. But if you look at the X-O Manowar series, it is about Aric always charging head on even without a plan and relying just on belief in one's abilities and righteousness to conquer the enemy. It is about Aric surviving his captivity by believing that he would meet Deidre again. It is about Aric gaining followers because of the strength of his belief.

[CallMeBloodshot]

Yes the council members were correct as you say, but them not being saved was about them beig bad people who enslaved others. It has nothing to do with faith. Those who worship the Shanhara would have been spared simply by using deductive reasoning. A floating sentient machine that bonds with another to become a deathbringer of catastrophic proportions is enough to suspect one might want to respect the tech. Then being spared is just luck and representative of them not coming to that conclusion rationally. So in result its actually quite funny as their submissive nature is what really unwittingly saves them. Not because they were smarter, but because they were so willing to serve. I wouldn't say this story at all means that having faith wins out over knowledge, as you seem to say. It's that if you happen to worship a raging warrior, death-bringing Visigoth he might actually spare your life.

I would also get that impression if we isolate the Planet Death arc. But if you look at the X-O Manowar series, it is about Aric always charging head on even without a plan and relying just on belief in one's abilities and righteousness to conquer the enemy. It is about Aric surviving his captivity by believing that he would meet Deidre again. It is about Aric gaining followers because of the strength of his belief.

At best it is stretch calling belief in oneself faith. Aric believing in himself, or anyone for that matter, is not comparable to "faith" in the religious sense. It's resolve. And thats a word V Ditti uses a lot in X-O. Faith is used exclusively with the Shanhara worshippers. IDK your personal beliefs and if you choose to differentiate between faith and human resolve but they are completely different concepts.

[erwinrafael]

Yes the council members were correct as you say, but them not being saved was about them beig bad people who enslaved others. It has nothing to do with faith. Those who worship the Shanhara would have been spared simply by using deductive reasoning. A floating sentient machine that bonds with another to become a deathbringer of catastrophic proportions is enough to suspect one might want to respect the tech. Then being spared is just luck and representative of them not coming to that conclusion rationally. So in result its actually quite funny as their submissive nature is what really unwittingly saves them. Not because they were smarter, but because they were so willing to serve. I wouldn't say this story at all means that having faith wins out over knowledge, as you seem to say. It's that if you happen to worship a raging warrior, death-bringing Visigoth he might actually spare your life.

I would also get that impression if we isolate the Planet Death arc. But if you look at the X-O Manowar series, it is about Aric always charging head on even without a plan and relying just on belief in one's abilities and righteousness to conquer the enemy. It is about Aric surviving his captivity by believing that he would meet Deidre again. It is about Aric gaining followers because of the strength of his belief.

At best it is stretch calling belief in oneself faith. Aric believing in himself, or anyone for that matter, is not comparable to "faith" in the religious sense. It's resolve. And thats a word V Ditti uses a lot in X-O. Faith is used exclusively with the Shanhara worshippers. IDK your personal beliefs and if you choose to differentiate between faith and human resolve but they are completely different concepts.

I used the word faith not just in its religious sense. The Merriam Webster Dictionary offers one definition as "firm belief in something for which there is no proof." This is how I used the term.

[CallMeBloodshot]

Yes the council members were correct as you say, but them not being saved was about them beig bad people who enslaved others. It has nothing to do with faith. Those who worship the Shanhara would have been spared simply by using deductive reasoning. A floating sentient machine that bonds with another to become a deathbringer of catastrophic proportions is enough to suspect one might want to respect the tech. Then being spared is just luck and representative of them not coming to that conclusion rationally. So in result its actually quite funny as their submissive nature is what really unwittingly saves them. Not because they were smarter, but because they were so willing to serve. I wouldn't say this story at all means that having faith wins out over knowledge, as you seem to say. It's that if you happen to worship a raging warrior, death-bringing Visigoth he might actually spare your life.

I would also get that impression if we isolate the Planet Death arc. But if you look at the X-O Manowar series, it is about Aric always charging head on even without a plan and relying just on belief in one's abilities and righteousness to conquer the enemy. It is about Aric surviving his captivity by believing that he would meet Deidre again. It is about Aric gaining followers because of the strength of his belief.

At best it is stretch calling belief in oneself faith. Aric believing in himself, or anyone for that matter, is not comparable to "faith" in the religious sense. It's resolve. And thats a word V Ditti uses a lot in X-O. Faith is used exclusively with the Shanhara worshippers. IDK your personal beliefs and if you choose to differentiate between faith and human resolve but they are completely different concepts.

I used the word faith not just in its religious sense. The Merriam Webster Dictionary offers one definition as "firm belief in something for which there is no proof." This is how I used the term.

Haha I know what faith means but you keep using it interchangeably with resolve, which is essentially where the wires are crossed. Aric has never been shown to represent faith as defined. He's willful and determined. It's nothing new for a superhero.

But at any rate, it seems we hold different opinions on the story. though it seems we still both liked it, I guess just for different reasons!

[dave]

Is there a Reader's Digest version of this thread? Too many words!

[lorddunlow]

Is there a Reader's Digest version of this thread? Too many words!

and +1

[greg]

"Reunited" and I would have felt more fulfilled.

Reunited and it feels so good?

[bygranddesign]

I spoke to Clayton Henry at Supercon this past weekend and asked him what else he will be doing for valiant now that Harbinger Wars was wrapping up ... and he told me he will be doing an upcoming XO arc

I'm assuming its going to be the arc after the Eternal Warrior one

Should be awesome .. I think he will be a great fit for XO

I'm wondering what's next for Cary Nord though? Isn't he exclusive to Valiant? They must have plans for him ... maybe Ninjak?

[greg]

I'm wondering what's next for Cary Nord though? Isn't he exclusive to Valiant? They must have plans for him ... maybe Ninjak?

What if Cary Nord did an arc on Eternal Warrior with tons of historical battle scenes?

[jmatt]

"Reunited" and I would have felt more fulfilled.

Reunited and it feels so good?

Mmmm, reaching deep into the mental archives. Peaches and Herb?

I just pulled that title out of a hat; was trying to think of something that fit the plot line but wasn't as over-dramatic.

[greg]

"Reunited" and I would have felt more fulfilled.

Reunited and it feels so good?

Mmmm, reaching deep into the mental archives. Peaches and Herb?

I just pulled that title out of a hat; was trying to think of something that fit the plot line but wasn't as over-dramatic.

Peaches and herbs are plants, so they might be the Vine's favorite musicians.

I'd also guess the Vine hates the Beatles.