Bloodshot & H.A.R.D. Corps #14 Discussion

[Spylocke]

now there's a plot device that should be used more in comics. I wonder why Peter Parker never thought of that. "Sorry I had to leave you when the Green Goblin showed up but I really needed to poop"

Actually, that just reminded me of one episode of Chuck in which he excuses Sarah disappearing to do spy stuff by telling everyone she has a spastic colon. "A really spastic one. It just spazzes right out!" Which people later ask her about. Funny ensues.

And about Disciple (I think that was his name?)... everyone's assuming he'll be morally conflicted, but what if he turns out to be a hellfire-and-brimstone type super religious person? He came off as a slightly unhinged fundamentalist to me. Kind of like Maniac before he went completely nuts, except different philosophically. So he might be more like I AM SMITING DEMONS FOR THE LORD than conflicted. I think Granite will be our go-to for doubts.

I agree that Disciple may be a kicking *SQUEE* for the lord type but I'm hoping for something a little more complex. Extremist Christians and Muslims are too played out in pop culture in my opinion. I suppose that's another reason I dig Maniac so much, at least he's a Hindu/Hara Krishna psycho. If I get a few panels of these two discussing religion I will be immensely happy.

It looks like now that each member will have an a personal operator. I don't remember the old series being set up like that but it's been a while. If it is different it is a great improvement. It seems that handling power switches for an entire team would be too much for one person. On the other hand we could get some good slapstick comedy out of giving someone the wrong powers.

[Phoenix8008]

so just a theory about what Harada did to Bloodshot, going off the preview for the next issue: Bloodshot is covered in lesions and has an immunodeficiency, which seems to be making him a metaphor for HIV. when Ivar told Archer that he kills Bloodshot in the future, could that be meant in a good way, like curing cancer or AIDS?

I have a slightly different theory that ties what Harada did to Bloodshot this issue into Ivar's 'prophecy' about Archer killing Bloodshot someday. What if Harada uses the nanites that he removed from Bloodshot to create his own 'Bloodshot 2.0'!? It could go nuts or be an evil doppelganger version, or just turn into another grey goo incident. But if it looked enough like the original Bloodshot, we could excuse Ivar's confusion on the subject when Archer eventually kills this villainous version!

As for the issue, I'd have to agree with most of what everybody is saying. Love this issue and all the origins of the new team. One possible fix for the '3 kids/2 kids' 'error': She says at one point that she just has three kids (in the video Palmer watches). Then we see in the flashback Granite talking to Kozol and she says she has 2 kids whose father thinks child support is a suggestion. Maybe two of the kids are from one father and the third is from another. But I'm guessing that her saying 3 kids in the video was a goof, because you only see 2 kids playing and while one could be pooping at that time, you also only see 2 kids saying goodbye to her when she's about to go get super secret brain surgery that could kill her. I'd want to say goodbye to all my kids and would wait till one was done pooping before leaving if that was me. One possible 'fix' for their problem could be that she does have a third kid, but that she doesn't have custody of that one. Adds an ex-husband complication into the picture for later layers of drama.

I also noticed how we're supposed to tell all the guys apart: their hair. Maniac is blond, Disciple is a redhead, Superstar has brown or black hair, and Palmer also has dark hair but with the greying around the ears. This lead me to catch another error. One panel where Granite first activates flight and you see the red haired guy lifting weights with Superstar (dark hair) in the background. When Granite actually flies, Superstar says 'Praise God' or 'Amen' or whatever, but that kind of thing should be from Disciple, not Superstar, especially since it's repeated another time as we pull back to see Palmer watching them on video monitoring. The word bubble was right between Disciple and Superstar and they may have just pointed it at the wrong character or forgotten to be careful on who was who or they flubbed the coloring of the hair.

[Blood of Heroes]

so just a theory about what Harada did to Bloodshot, going off the preview for the next issue: Bloodshot is covered in lesions and has an immunodeficiency, which seems to be making him a metaphor for HIV. when Ivar told Archer that he kills Bloodshot in the future, could that be meant in a good way, like curing cancer or AIDS?

I have a slightly different theory that ties what Harada did to Bloodshot this issue into Ivar's 'prophecy' about Archer killing Bloodshot someday. What if Harada uses the nanites that he removed from Bloodshot to create his own 'Bloodshot 2.0'!? It could go nuts or be an evil doppelganger version, or just turn into another grey goo incident. But if it looked enough like the original Bloodshot, we could excuse Ivar's confusion on the subject when Archer eventually kills this villainous version!

I had the same thought as well. His doppelganger was named Rampage in the original Valiant universe. Harada didn't make him though. He kinda grew out of Bloodshot.

[hunter_peterson]

so just a theory about what Harada did to Bloodshot, going off the preview for the next issue: Bloodshot is covered in lesions and has an immunodeficiency, which seems to be making him a metaphor for HIV. when Ivar told Archer that he kills Bloodshot in the future, could that be meant in a good way, like curing cancer or AIDS?

I have a slightly different theory that ties what Harada did to Bloodshot this issue into Ivar's 'prophecy' about Archer killing Bloodshot someday. What if Harada uses the nanites that he removed from Bloodshot to create his own 'Bloodshot 2.0'!? It could go nuts or be an evil doppelganger version, or just turn into another grey goo incident. But if it looked enough like the original Bloodshot, we could excuse Ivar's confusion on the subject when Archer eventually kills this villainous version!

I had the same thought as well. His doppelganger was named Rampage in the original Valiant universe. Harada didn't make him though. He kinda grew out of Bloodshot.

Rampage would look awesome if he was a color-swapped VEI Bloodshot wearing a white suit with no shirt or shoes. I bet Harada would program him to have completely different fighting styles...

But I think it would make sense for Livewire to maybe receive the nanites. It would upgrade her power set nicely and put her in the top-tier of Valiant heroes without compromising her tech wizard gimmick.

[String]

If they can move through walls why don't they fall through the floor?

The perennial problem with being intangible.

It's the same ability that LaForge and Ro used so they didn't fall through the decks of the Enterprise when they were 'cloaked'.

And Preacher is a better codename (with apologies to Ennis).

[Spylocke]

Maybe Disciple was chosen as a code name to foreshadow him becoming a loyal follower of Project Rising Spirit and creating a rift in the team.

[rpellech83]

Maybe the writers and or Rising Spirit are fans of WCW's The Raven and his loyal follower the Disciple. After all the Disciple was formerly Brutus the Barber Beefcake and one could say that at one point he was a Superstar. Back then those wrestlers were made of Granite. Thank you.

[BugsySig]

Maybe the writers and or Rising Spirit are fans of WCW's The Raven and his loyal follower the Disciple. After all the Disciple was formerly Brutus the Barber Beefcake and one could say that at one point he was a Superstar. Back then those wrestlers were made of Granite. Thank you.

The Desciple was one of Hulk Hogans NWO cronies. He wasn't in Ravens Flock...that was Saturn, Kidman, Lodi and a few others.

[rpellech83]

Good call. I thought at one point the Disciple followed Raven though. Maybe I'm misremembering.

[BugsySig]

Good call. I thought at one point the Disciple followed Raven though. Maybe I'm misremembering.

There were a lot of scrubs they threw into the Flock. I think Van Hammer was in there at one point. Maybe that's who you are thinking of?

[Chiclo]

Good call. I thought at one point the Disciple followed Raven though. Maybe I'm misremembering.

There were a lot of scrubs they threw into the Flock. I think Van Hammer was in there at one point. Maybe that's who you are thinking of?

Horace comes to mind.

The Disciple got picked off and was the only follower of the Ultimate Warrior and his little OWN.

[Savant]

Maybe the writers and or Rising Spirit are fans of WCW's The Raven and his loyal follower the Disciple. After all the Disciple was formerly Brutus the Barber Beefcake and one could say that at one point he was a Superstar. Back then those wrestlers were made of Granite. Thank you.

The Desciple was one of Hulk Hogans NWO cronies. He wasn't in Ravens Flock...that was Saturn, Kidman, Lodi and a few others.

Correct. And aside from his push as Brutus "The Barber" Beefcake in the WWF, Beefcake was never close to being a superstar. He was personal friends with Hulk Hogan since Hogan's early days as Terry Boulder in Memphis. Look at Beefcake with the long, blond hair and mustache!!!!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCbp4wnyG9U" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hogan went by Stirling Golden when he was briefly in the NWA territories shortly after his early Memphis run, but I don't think Beefcake was with him there. I highly doubt Ole Anderson would've allowed it.

[kjjohanson]

so just a theory about what Harada did to Bloodshot, going off the preview for the next issue: Bloodshot is covered in lesions and has an immunodeficiency, which seems to be making him a metaphor for HIV. when Ivar told Archer that he kills Bloodshot in the future, could that be meant in a good way, like curing cancer or AIDS?

I have a slightly different theory that ties what Harada did to Bloodshot this issue into Ivar's 'prophecy' about Archer killing Bloodshot someday. What if Harada uses the nanites that he removed from Bloodshot to create his own 'Bloodshot 2.0'!? It could go nuts or be an evil doppelganger version, or just turn into another grey goo incident. But if it looked enough like the original Bloodshot, we could excuse Ivar's confusion on the subject when Archer eventually kills this villainous version!

One subtle (but I think we'll find out key) correction: Ivar says that Bloodshot is destroyed, not killed. That leads me to believe that it's not the Bloodshot we know, but some non-living construct.

[lorddunlow]

so just a theory about what Harada did to Bloodshot, going off the preview for the next issue: Bloodshot is covered in lesions and has an immunodeficiency, which seems to be making him a metaphor for HIV. when Ivar told Archer that he kills Bloodshot in the future, could that be meant in a good way, like curing cancer or AIDS?

I have a slightly different theory that ties what Harada did to Bloodshot this issue into Ivar's 'prophecy' about Archer killing Bloodshot someday. What if Harada uses the nanites that he removed from Bloodshot to create his own 'Bloodshot 2.0'!? It could go nuts or be an evil doppelganger version, or just turn into another grey goo incident. But if it looked enough like the original Bloodshot, we could excuse Ivar's confusion on the subject when Archer eventually kills this villainous version!

One subtle (but I think we'll find out key) correction: Ivar says that Bloodshot is destroyed, not killed. That leads me to believe that it's not the Bloodshot we know, but some non-living construct.

When I first read this post, I was scratching my head as to why kjjohanson was talking about Bloodshot in the wrestling thread, but then I realized it wasn't the wrestling thread.

[apainter]

(BTW, I got the HW trade, and, like the first Bloodshot trade, they made some corrections. Stronghold and Ion are properly colored/addressed, and James calls out to Katherine instead of "Maggie".)

Wow, corrections in the trades? Nice!

FYI, the Bloodshot correction was the the page where Kara and Melissa introduce themselves. The word balloons are attributed correctly.

The Bloodshot: Harbinger Wars trade should be out soon. I wonder if they're going to somehow fix the last part of it so BS's correct arm is missing.

Art

[Blood of Heroes]

The Bloodshot: Harbinger Wars trade should be out soon. I wonder if they're going to somehow fix the last part of it so BS's correct arm is missing.

Art

[Bl00dsh0t]

I noticed the 3 kids/2 kids error, also, although it's possible she does have three kids but the third one wasn't shown during that scene.

Maybe she's pregnant...

Clearly, There is a kid that she's ashamed of and keeps locked under the stairs because he's a wizard. Don't you guys know anything?

Seriously, though: Palmer is awesome! This book is awesome. It officially just took over Harbinger as my favorite VEI title. This is how comics should always be.

How has no one mentioned on here yet that there is a Harbinger power of which Harada does not have knowledge? This was the most intriguing aspect for me.

Also, does anyone think we might be dealing with a somewhat powered down and vulnerable Bloodshot fo

r a while? That would make this book really interesting as he has been pretty indestructible so far.

So many possibilities for this title, and I love the massive overlap between my two favorite titles!

Bloodshot #7 has a kid who can turn invisible, wonder if they can walk through walls too like the 'ghost Mode' used by the HARD Corps?

[Peter]

Bloodshot is happy for the save now, but how will he react when he finds out HARD Corps are PRS?

Yes that was my first thought as well.

I am with the majority here and really enjoyed this issue, it really did seem to take longer to read with a lot actually happening in it.
Did it seem a little too easy for Bloodshot's rescue considering it was the team's first mission? Does Harada already now have what he wants from Bloodshot to care?
This looks as though it will quite interesting in regards to how Bloodshot will work with the H.A.R.D. Corps team since they are affiliated with PRS, and especially since that little speech he gives Harada about choices about your own actions and how his have changed since he has gained an essence of free will.

Yes Palmer does seem to have the makings of a great character, it would almost seem as if his character would have a life of his own for the writers to follow.

Nice issue

[hunter_peterson]

Bloodshot is happy for the save now, but how will he react when he finds out HARD Corps are PRS?

Yes that was my first thought as well.

I am with the majority here and really enjoyed this issue, it really did seem to take longer to read with a lot actually happening in it.
Did it seem a little too easy for Bloodshot's rescue considering it was the team's first mission? Does Harada already now have what he wants from Bloodshot to care?
This looks as though it will quite interesting in regards to how Bloodshot will work with the H.A.R.D. Corps team since they are affiliated with PRS, and especially since that little speech he gives Harada about choices about your own actions and how his have changed since he has gained an essence of free will.

Yes Palmer does seem to have the makings of a great character, it would almost seem as if his character would have a life of his own for the writers to follow.

Nice issue

Good point about Palmer; if this had no Bloodshot and was pure HARDCorps I would still have enjoyed it as much as I did. That was almost the structure of the issue, anyway. I can see them successfully spinning out of this... maybe after a Harbinger Wars reprisal?

[AnthonyF]

Good point about Palmer; if this had no Bloodshot and was pure HARDCorps I would still have enjoyed it as much as I did. That was almost the structure of the issue, anyway. I can see them successfully spinning out of this... maybe after a Harbinger Wars reprisal?

I would have enjoyed this book if it was just the HARDCorps, too. I don't have much feeling towards Bloodshot, he's a blank slate. Palmer maybe a remorseless killer, but he's got good backstory. I can't wait for HARDCorps #0!

[dornwolf]

Here's an idea maybe Harada takes Bloodshots nanites and yes makes a copy or in the slim possibility RAI.

Also on the topic of the book. Very well done if not for the Bloodshot in the title and #14 it would've felt like a very well done Number 1 spun out of a crossover.

[Captain Craig]

[quote="Peter" ]
Yes Palmer does seem to have the makings of a great character, it would almost seem as if his character would have a life of his own for the writers to follow.[/quote]

I'd about put money on that being the reason for this strategy.
The HARD Corps are already more interesting than Jack Boniface...sadly, and I do read that book, and Palmer hasn't had nearly the face time.

If this issue is an indication of what to expect with the HC team in tow with Bloodshot I could see them spinning out to their own book and Bloodshot being solo again. Maybe as early as issue #25.

[apainter]

If this issue is an indication of what to expect with the HC team in tow with Bloodshot I could see them spinning out to their own book and Bloodshot being solo again. Maybe as early as issue #25.

Maybe Bloodshot will be used to launch other titles? First, HARD Corps will spin off, then it'll become "Bloodshot and the Armorines", then "Bloodshot and the Second Life of Dr. Mirage", then "Bloodshot and the Trinity Angels"...

With regards to Rising Spirit, I can't see BS working with them at all. Maybe if Kozol and all of the old guard were removed, he might, but even then it's iffy. I'm definitely interested to see how Gage handles this.

Art

[lorddunlow]

If this issue is an indication of what to expect with the HC team in tow with Bloodshot I could see them spinning out to their own book and Bloodshot being solo again. Maybe as early as issue #25.

Maybe Bloodshot will be used to launch other titles? First, HARD Corps will spin off, then it'll become "Bloodshot and the Armorines", then "Bloodshot and the Second Life of Dr. Mirage", then "Bloodshot and the Trinity Angels"...

With regards to Rising Spirit, I can't see BS working with them at all. Maybe if Kozol and all of the old guard were removed, he might, but even then it's iffy. I'm definitely interested to see how Gage handles this.

Art

I'm actually thinking it might be interesting if PRS reprogrammed him and wiped him clean for a while. We could have some insight to Bloodshot's head (like we did when the Harada Protocol kicked in) during these issues that shows an internal struggle, but outwardly he would be working under the control of PRS just like he was designed to do. This would also be a perfect set up for severing the title into separate books in a logical manner as one day Bloodshot breaks free of his programming again, and fights against PRS/HARDcorps.

There would be potential storylines where he gained some temporary control and had to be contained by PRS, and also storylines where he gained control, but played along with PRS while secretly subverting them.

I'm interested to see how this turns out, but I really don't see how Bloodshot is going to be okay with working for PRS any other way, unless they threatened innocents which is a little too predictable.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

Anyone wanna take bets on how long until Granite dies? It's not that I want her to die, but the way this issue focuses on her and her reason for joining so much more than every other character makes it feel like they're setting her up for a major tragedy. Especially after that part where she hugs Kozol and cries; there's no way this doesn't end with her death being used to illustrate how much of a sick *SQUEE* he is.

IDK, I guess I'm just a glass-half-empty kind of guy. But seriously, I really enjoyed this issue and I think that last week was VEI's best week yet.

(And like I said, I don't want her to die, but it's totally going to happen. I guarantee it)