Harbinger 24 Discussion

[kjjohanson]

I hit the comic store before work today. It's in my bag. Can't wait to read it at lunchtime!

[Keith]

Wow... what an emotional issue. Anyone who may have complained that the team didn't have time to reflect on Flamingo's death last issue are sure going to get their resolution here.

Everything changes here. I can't imagine where it goes next. <bows down before Dysart>

[somewhatlazy]

I can't imagine where it goes next.

It ends. Then what's left becomes a series of mini series obsessed with finding new readership, and everything that made the book special in the first place gets stripped away for issue 1 buys and "wait for trade" sales.

[Keith]

I can't imagine where it goes next.

It ends. Then what's left becomes a series of mini series obsessed with finding new readership, and everything that made the book special in the first place gets stripped away for issue 1 buys and "wait for trade" sales.

Well that slice of unbridled enthusiasm belongs over in the sales thread, Billy Mumphrey!

<reference, anyone?>

[somewhatlazy]

Well that slice of unbridled enthusiasm belongs over in the sales thread, Billy Mumphrey!

<reference, anyone?>

I can assure I am not mixed up in the high stakes game of world diplomacy and international intrigue.

The issue was very good though. Sorry for the bummer post; I just see history repeating.

[hkupo]

This has been my favorite comic series since I started and also got me hooked on the whole valiant universe. With that said, I didn't really enjoy this issue. I really want to like it but I just can't bring myself to getting excited about the effects from this issue. Hopefully 25 and Omegas can bring me around.

[Elveen]

I loved this book.

Big Torque was GREAT!

I also liked the Kris 'Mingo flashback.

[David_Cody]

I thought it was a very sad and somber issue. I'm a sucker for a happy ending in movie and I guess in a comic and this one did not have that. Not even sure what could happen in issue #25 as the majority of the epic battle took place in 24.

[kjjohanson]

I can't imagine where it goes next.

It ends. Then what's left becomes a series of mini series obsessed with finding new readership, and everything that made the book special in the first place gets stripped away for issue 1 buys and "wait for trade" sales.

Another way to look at it is this: Valiant has stories to tell. It tells them, and then moves on. It doesn't try to drag things out and pump out issue after issue of the same thing because it wants to sell a book. In life, people move on. These characters are moving on to the next phase in their lives, and as much as I enjoyed reading about this phase of their lives, I'm still interested in seeing what happens next, even if it's drastically different.

In other news, holy *SQUEE*, Pete and Harada are really *SQUEE* up.

[hkupo]

I can't imagine where it goes next.

It ends. Then what's left becomes a series of mini series obsessed with finding new readership, and everything that made the book special in the first place gets stripped away for issue 1 buys and "wait for trade" sales.

Another way to look at it is this: Valiant has stories to tell. It tells them, and then moves on. It doesn't try to drag things out and pump out issue after issue of the same thing because it wants to sell a book. In life, people move on. These characters are moving on to the next phase in their lives, and as much as I enjoyed reading about this phase of their lives, I'm still interested in seeing what happens next, even if it's drastically different.

In other news, holy *SQUEE*, Pete and Harada are really *SQUEE* up.

Yeah I'm curious how they'll handle that. In the past both of them have been pretty *SQUEE* up physically(not on this level), but they've both been shown to have some sort of healing factor or ability.

By the way you have a pretty cool outlook on the way Valiant is handling their line.

[BugsySig]

Thought this issue was great. Art was very solid and man were Pete and Harada brutalized! Loved the scene with the Monk laying it all out for Harada and Pete. Harada's anger was palpable.

I think Faith summed it up best when she said now they can do real good and not just fight the same crazy guy anymore. That's where the series is going for now: Faith trying to do good. Bringing the Gen Zero kids into the fold and trying to improve their outlook on humanity would be very reasonable. Then eventually a return by Pete.

I think if the next chapter of Harbinger goes another 25 issues, I'd be pretty happy with that.

[jmatt]

Another way to look at it is this: Valiant has stories to tell. It tells them, and then moves on. It doesn't try to drag things out and pump out issue after issue of the same thing because it wants to sell a book. In life, people move on. These characters are moving on to the next phase in their lives, and as much as I enjoyed reading about this phase of their lives, I'm still interested in seeing what happens next, even if it's drastically different.

As shocked as I am by this issue, I agree. I have been saying for the last two years that:

a) A title doesn't have to last forever. When you are done covering the ground you wanted to cover, retire it and move on. Now truth be told, my horizon for something like that is the five to seven year mark; I feel like we have barely scratched the surface of these characters and as Faith pointed out, all they ever did was go up against Harada.

2) Give me new. New is better. New ideas. New character concepts. New power sets. New storylines. Looks like I'm gonna get it.

While this kind of smashes the dreams of seeing a title reach a glorious 120 issues, it also means we won't suffer like DC and Marvel fans, where the titles became stale retreads that reboot every 24 months and we get to see the 127th writer's version of Batman.

[AnthonyF]

Great issue, I really enjoyed Khari's art in this issue, he excelled at telling this heartbreaking story. Also he finally drew Faith so she was not distractingly obese.

And THE SHOTS OF PITTSBURGH!! Wow, my home town really got it bad!
I work downtown, and the art team did their homework. Hell, I walk down the street in Page 1 all the time.

From the teaser months ago (January!) we know that Harada will not heed the Monk's advice. I wonder how the end of #24 will ease into Omegas...

After this story arc, I won't mind a bit if #25 is underwhelming. It's time to take a breather.

[AnthonyF]

You talk about new ideas...
I was rereading Harbinger Wars, it's shocking just how many psiots were killed since then.
Does Harada really have anybody left, aside from Stronghold?!

It seems like they're good at coming up with characters. Harbinger Wars 2 lists 18 psiots on the recap page, many of whom didn't appear in the book.

[jmatt]

I have to decide how much I liked this issue. My gut reaction was surprise that the team broke up and I'm okay with that. And generally speaking, I was pleased with it.

But the climax was less thrilling than I thought. BM shows up kinda deus ex machina and declares it to be over. When did he start deciding how the future would unfold? I'm not sure that I feel he is established enough as a character to be granted this role.

His zero issue was good, albeit it a little mumbo-jumbo-y, but when did he become the grand chess master with lines like "You have played your role and now it is over"? My sense of the character is that he was involved in the actions of Peter and Harada but not in control of them.

And while a good plot device that keeps them both alive yet defeated, Pete stripping them apart at an atomic level was less uh, explosive, than I thought the big fight would be, visually speaking. And why would Peter do this to himself if he could have just done it to Harada?

[kjjohanson]

Great issue, I really enjoyed Khari's art in this issue, he excelled at telling this heartbreaking story. Also he finally drew Faith so she was not distractingly obese.

And THE SHOTS OF PITTSBURGH!! Wow, my home town really got it bad!
I work downtown, and the art team did their homework. Hell, I walk down the street in Page 1 all the time.

To be fair, some of the images look like photographs that have been adjusted to work in a comic story.

You task now, should you decide to accept it, is to find the post office.

[kjjohanson]

I have to decide how much I liked this issue. My gut reaction was surprise that the team broke up and I'm okay with that. And generally speaking, I was pleased with it.

But the climax was less thrilling than I thought. BM shows up kinda deus ex machina and declares it to be over. When did he start deciding how the future would unfold? I'm not sure that I feel he is established enough as a character to be granted this role.

His zero issue was good, albeit it a little mumbo-jumbo-y, but when did he become the grand chess master with lines like "You have played your role and now it is over"? My sense of the character is that he was involved in the actions of Peter and Harada but not in control of them.

Time for a re-read.

And why would Peter do this to himself if he could have just done it to Harada?

Maybe he just lacks the control to both do what he wants to do to Harada and protect himself, and his priority is the former.

[AnthonyF]

To be fair, some of the images look like photographs that have been adjusted to work in a comic story.

Yeah, I figured those were manipulated photos.

You task now, should you decide to accept it, is to find the post office.

Well, our main post office closed earlier this year. The kids could be hiding out there.

[jmatt]

Time for a re-read.

Mmm, I remember most of their interactions and yes, I recall some manipulation. But can you honestly say that all this time you imagined the BM to be in control of both characters and moreover, the future?

And why would Peter do this to himself if he could have just done it to Harada?

Maybe he just lacks the control to both do what he wants to do to Harada and protect himself, and his priority is the former.

That's a big maybe.

[kjjohanson]

Time for a re-read.

Mmm, I remember most of their interactions and yes, I recall some manipulation. But can you honestly say that all this time you imagined the BM to be in control of both characters and moreover, the future?

And why would Peter do this to himself if he could have just done it to Harada?

Maybe he just lacks the control to both do what he wants to do to Harada and protect himself, and his priority is the former.

That's a big maybe.

Well, it's not like he spent that much time at the Foundation, honing his skills.

[pixierosa]

As much as I hated to see this team roster come to an end, I think Dysart did it very well. It makes sense, too. Just how long could a team of teenagers fight an entity with potentially greater power, much better resources, and more experience? They couldn't keep it up long term. This was, in a way, a guerrilla action on the Renegade's part. It would be unrealistic to have no one come out unscathed or for them to keep this up long term. Sooner or later Harada would have caught up to them.

There were a few surprises here for me. I figured Ax wouldn't stick around too long, but I was surprised that he ditched the team as soon as he had the data download. He seemed rather bitter and more than a bit egotistical. Wonder if that is some foreshadowing of what might become of him. I was also surprised to learn of Kris' feelings about Flamingo. I didn't really see that in the storyline, other than in the perfect day dream sequence - but since that was a shared dreamscape, and Kris seemed surprised by the kiss, it made me think that it was more of Flamingo's influence. Otherwise, they didn't have much interaction that would endear one to the other. But it did serve as a way to explain how and why Kris was grieving the way she was.

Really glad Pete got to wrap things up with each team member. Liked his interaction with Torque. Speaking of, I hope he gets that talent of increase his size under control. Could be a great weapon against a giant death robot (if only we knew where we could find one).

I thought the emotional balance was done well. Definitely felt like a requiem but wasn't heavy-handed with emotions or manipulations of such. Great job.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

I was under the impression the big confrontation between Pete and Harada was going to be in issue 25? Are we still on course for more action between the two?
WOW, Pete and Harada are EFF'ed up!
Great wrap up between Pete and the renegades.
And I doubt we've seen the last of Faith, Torque and Kris. Who knows, maybe even Pete? Omegas?

[dornwolf]

I'll admit to disliking Harbinger quite a bit in the early run. Not because of writing or art issues being bad more like the opposite Dystart did such a good job at the time giving flaws to these characters that I couldn't stand Peter. Now I know were supposed to be lamenting Flamigos death but I feel more for Peter than anything. He's lost everything, not that he had much to begin with, but at least acomplished what he set out to do. Though you feel bad for him learning that Kris despised him to the bitter end. I do think at some point he'll be back, he's not dead, but from look at Armour Hunters and seeing Faith and Torque team up with Gen-Zero who will be the main characters for Omega, he'll head back into the fight sooner rather than later. Hopefully not as beat up looking.

[ilzuccone]

I think dysart really shows his skill as a writer in these post punch up books. Very strong character development here. it all feels so natural.

I love how petter wanted to end harada so bad that he would jeopardize his own safety to accomplish it. I hope neither of them go back to being pretty again.

The art while good... i'm over the photo manipulated background bull *SQUEE*. lazy. use it as reference. photo backgrounds always come off as distracting or flat.

Another way to look at it is this: Valiant has stories to tell. It tells them, and then moves on. It doesn't try to drag things out and pump out issue after issue of the same thing because it wants to sell a book. In life, people move on. These characters are moving on to the next phase in their lives, and as much as I enjoyed reading about this phase of their lives, I'm still interested in seeing what happens next, even if it's drastically different.

As shocked as I am by this issue, I agree. I have been saying for the last two years that:

a) A title doesn't have to last forever. When you are done covering the ground you wanted to cover, retire it and move on. Now truth be told, my horizon for something like that is the five to seven year mark; I feel like we have barely scratched the surface of these characters and as Faith pointed out, all they ever did was go up against Harada.

2) Give me new. New is better. New ideas. New character concepts. New power sets. New storylines. Looks like I'm gonna get it.

While this kind of smashes the dreams of seeing a title reach a glorious 120 issues, it also means we won't suffer like DC and Marvel fans, where the titles became stale retreads that reboot every 24 months and we get to see the 127th writer's version of Batman.

love the positivity. I agree. better to not become stale. i feel like there are some more stories to be told here though.

[JonesyAZ]

Awesome issue! But did anyone else find Harada's dialogue about shoving the Monk's remains up his behind a bit disturbing? An odd comment, I thought...lol