Valiant Development Series 1: Documentation

mnc93 · Post by **mnc93** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:44 pm

NOTE: It has come to my attention that everyone sending mass emails to Gemstone Publishing might be harmful to valiant fans in increasing awareness of Valiant Comic Books. At this time, please cease or refrain from sending anymore emails to Gemstone Publishing.

However, feel free to comment on this topic!!!
_____________________________________________________________

Valiant Fans,

As a valiant fan, I have noticed that we have started to lose our focus which is valiant comics. So, what I want to do is bring us back on track and refocus our efforts…

Valiant Development Series 1: Documentation

The owner(s) of Valiantcomics.com has done an incredible job documenting most valiant comic books. And for that I am grateful for!!! However, most comic book fans get their knowledge and price reference from the Overstreet Price Guide. Documentation and information is key when buying comic books!! If comic book fans don’t see it, then they don’t know!! Well, I think it is time to change all of that.

The Overstreet Price Guide for a few years now has been neglectful in adding more valiant comic books to the price guide. So as a community we need to let Gemstone Publishing know that there is more Valiant comic books that should be listed in the Overstreet Price Guide. Furthermore, these additions should be placed in the 37th Edition of Overstreet Price Guide. ONLY AS A COMMUNITY CAN THIS BE DONE!!

Here is the mission!! Below is the email address of Gemstone Publishing. Email Gemstone Publishing with the valiant comic books they have missed in previous Overstreet Price Guides. If enough people email Gemstone Publishing with the valiant comics they have missed, then most or if not all valiant comic books should be listed in the next Overstreet Price Guide. They cannot deny a whole community. Remember, Gemstone Publishing says “we’re only as good as the information we get.” So, lets give them some information!!! When emailing Gemstone Publishing, please reference http://www.valiantcomics.com to help Gemstone Publishing get an extensive background and history on valiant comics that they have missed or neglected to list in previous Overstreet Price Guides.

Gemstone Publishing (Publishers of Overstreet Price Guide)

Examples of some valiant comics that are not listed in Overstreet Price Guide:
Unity (TPB)
RAI (TPB) Regular and Blue variant
X-O Manowar (TPB) Blue variant
Solar, Man of Atom – Alpha and Omega (Hardcover)
Valiant Validated Signature Series
Etc….

Unblessed · Post by **Unblessed** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:48 pm

Sorry, I don't do homework for any kid. No matter what age they might be.

Knightt · Post by **Knightt** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:51 pm

Unblessed wrote:Sorry, I don't do homework for any kid. No matter what age they might be.

betterthanezra · Post by **betterthanezra** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:58 pm

I have for one sent this very info to Gemstone to only have NO response from them PERIOD.

I'm not knocking anything you wrote but it would have to be a VERY large voice to Gemstone for them to change anything at this point IMO.

have we lost focus? ummmmmmmmmmm yeah we chat about a universe thats been dead for 9 years VH-1 and6 years VH-2....so focus could be fuzzy at this point.

-Brian

Unblessed · Post by **Unblessed** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:08 pm

If they really cared about Valiant or anyother Dead Universe, they could Google 'em or read the Wiki entry like most of us did to get here.

Yes, fans like Greg go out of their way to preserve what really is in the Universe. Greg did most of this work (print run estimates, Ebay price tracking, current book value, etc).

Why should he allow Overstreet to copy his work? He's done more than "document", he's gone through VH1/2/3 with a fine tooth comb.

mnc93 · Post by **mnc93** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:10 pm

betterthanezra wrote:I have for one sent this very info to Gemstone to only have NO response from them PERIOD.

I'm not knocking anything you wrote but it would have to be a VERY large voice to Gemstone for them to change anything at this point IMO.

have we lost focus? ummmmmmmmmmm yeah we chat about a universe thats been dead for 9 years VH-1 and6 years VH-2....so focus could be fuzzy at this point.

-Brian

That is why we need to do this as a community and not just one person. But with the previous responses I got earlier, what's the point. If this is the way they treat forum members then I should just leave this website.

betterthanezra · Post by **betterthanezra** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:17 pm

mnc93 wrote:
betterthanezra wrote:I have for one sent this very info to Gemstone to only have NO response from them PERIOD.

I'm not knocking anything you wrote but it would have to be a VERY large voice to Gemstone for them to change anything at this point IMO.

have we lost focus? ummmmmmmmmmm yeah we chat about a universe thats been dead for 9 years VH-1 and6 years VH-2....so focus could be fuzzy at this point.

-Brian
That is why we need to do this as a community and not just one person. But with the previous responses I got earlier, what's the point. If this is the way they treat forum members then I should just leave this website.

They are seriously harmless, they are just trying to be funny....there are very good members here that love this universe and in time I hope you can see that.

-Brian

mnc93 · Post by **mnc93** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm

Unblessed wrote:If they really cared about Valiant or anyother Dead Universe, they could Google 'em or read the Wiki entry like most of us did to get here.

Yes, fans like Greg go out of their way to preserve what really is in the Universe. Greg did most of this work (print run estimates, Ebay price tracking, current book value, etc).

Why should he allow Overstreet to copy his work? He's done more than "document", he's gone through VH1/2/3 with a fine tooth comb.

I cannot deny what he has done!!! I know what he has done. I have been around alot longer than you think. I have been watching in the background for a few years. For Overstreet to docuement his work should be a compliment not plagiarism!! It is strange but for so many years older valiant fans (veterans) have been fighting for valiant comics to be recognized by the comic industry and now I try to help and I am getting shot down. Hey, I was just trying to help not insult anyone.

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm

oh good god...

look, if you aren't familiar with the "noob" phenomenon on internet message boards then i'm not going to bother explaining it to you now.

the deal is this...you're idea is an excellent one, we know because some of our more tenured members have been attempting to get this very thing done for the past few YEARS.

we LOVE enthusiastic new members, it's what keeps our community thriving...however, we do prefer that you "prove your mettle" before announcing sweeping initiatives or grand projects.

i'll tell you the same thing i tell anyone else who enters a new situation...learn how they do things NOW before you start thinking about changing stuff. if you don't take the time to learn their processes and obectives then how can you ever hope to successfully improve upon them?

change is fine, but learn WHY and HOW things are done before you assume your way is the best way...chances are the people you're about to change have tried something like your suggestion before.

the other thing you need to resign yourself to if you'd like to become a member of the valiant mafia is that yes...we are opinionated and demanding.

trust is earned my friend, trust is earned.

but like anything else...membership has it's privaledges.

so are you in for the ride or are you headed towards the door...ultimately, it's your call.

dac55 · Post by **dac55** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:30 pm

betterthanezra wrote:
mnc93 wrote:
betterthanezra wrote:I have for one sent this very info to Gemstone to only have NO response from them PERIOD.

I'm not knocking anything you wrote but it would have to be a VERY large voice to Gemstone for them to change anything at this point IMO.

have we lost focus? ummmmmmmmmmm yeah we chat about a universe thats been dead for 9 years VH-1 and6 years VH-2....so focus could be fuzzy at this point.

-Brian
That is why we need to do this as a community and not just one person. But with the previous responses I got earlier, what's the point. If this is the way they treat forum members then I should just leave this website.
They are seriously harmless, they are just trying to be funny....there are very good members here that love this universe and in time I hope you can see that.

-Brian

This is true.

Stay awhile and you will see.

David

Unblessed · Post by **Unblessed** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:33 pm

mnc93 wrote:It is strange but for so many years older valiant veterans have been fighting for valiant comics to be recognized by the comic industry

I blame Wizard for the backfire on all things VALIANT (as Jim writes it). That backfire is still out there in full force. People are still feeling the effects of a 10 yearold burn.

When this site was "discovered" about 2002, the prices of VALIANT books went to about 25% of the 1993/1994 levels. 2004 was the last "peak".

A plug in Overstreet is NOT something I, as a collector with an incomplete collection, am for.

mnc93 · Post by **mnc93** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:33 pm

cinlach@aol.com wrote:oh good god...

look, if you aren't familiar with the "noob" phenomenon on internet message boards then i'm not going to bother explaining it to you now.

the deal is this...you're idea is an excellent one, we know because some of our more tenured members have been attempting to get this very thing done for the past few YEARS.

we LOVE enthusiastic new members, it's what keeps our community thriving...however, we do prefer that you "prove your mettle" before announcing sweeping initiatives or grand projects.

i'll tell you the same thing i tell anyone else who enters a new situation...learn how they do things NOW before you start thinking about changing stuff. if you don't take the time to learn their processes and obectives then how can you ever hope to successfully improve upon them?

change is fine, but learn WHY and HOW things are done before you assume your way is the best way...chances are the people you're about to change have tried something like your suggestion before.

the other thing you need to resign yourself to if you'd like to become a member of the valiant mafia is that yes...we are opinionated and demanding.

trust is earned my friend, trust is earned.

but like anything else...membership has it's privaledges.

so are you in for the ride or are you headed towards the door...ultimately, it's your call.

Well said!!! I can't argue with that!!!!

Unblessed · Post by **Unblessed** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:38 pm

mnc93, as they have posted, I am normally not arguementative. However, as a collector with an incomplete collection, whenever someone does something to "increase awareness" of my niche in this hobby, it drives my prices up.

I don't like that. So yes, this thread hit a small little nerve of mine. Which I tried to defuse with humor.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:23 pm

mnc93 wrote:
betterthanezra wrote:I have for one sent this very info to Gemstone to only have NO response from them PERIOD.

I'm not knocking anything you wrote but it would have to be a VERY large voice to Gemstone for them to change anything at this point IMO.

have we lost focus? ummmmmmmmmmm yeah we chat about a universe thats been dead for 9 years VH-1 and6 years VH-2....so focus could be fuzzy at this point.

-Brian
That is why we need to do this as a community and not just one person. But with the previous responses I got earlier, what's the point. If this is the way they treat forum members then I should just leave this website.

Pack your bags, we're going on a guilt trip...

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:29 pm

Unblessed wrote:mnc93, as they have posted, I am normally not arguementative. However, as a collector with an incomplete collection, whenever someone does something to "increase awareness" of my niche in this hobby, it drives my prices up.

I don't like that. So yes, this thread hit a small little nerve of mine. Which I tried to defuse with humor.

Which is really the bottom line....I DON'T want Valiant "prices" to be "updated", nor do I want any more focus on Valiant right now than there is....I LIKE buying Valiants at the price I pay....

And yes, most of us have this agenda....I'm the bigmouth who isn't afraid to say it.

When.....if....I ever feel like I "have enough"....then would I support a Valiant Back Issue Renaissance.

If that happens in the meantime, GREAT....but it's better for ME and many of us if it doesn't.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:30 pm

And why are n00bs dictating at us....?

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:27 am

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:And why are n00bs dictating at us....?

This guy is no Rai92... I'm not even paying attention to him.

-slym

IMJ · Post by **IMJ** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:57 am

Any increased interest in back issues would help solidify the long term collectibility of these comics and would be a good thing for the Valiant name in general.

I agree that I don't want prices to soar considering I'm -this- close to completing the universe and the premiums (haven't updated my V.com Inv in a long while), however any additional interest that Valiant back issues could garner would simply aid them in becoming timeless classics in the future, rather than the cult classics that they truly, currently are.

However, regarding Greg's work, you've also got to understand that this niche market respects Greg's pricing more than they would whatever they'd see in Overstreet. Valiant has become a company survived primarily by the online community, therefore new standards are needed to maintain the new support (i.e. Greg's instantly updatable online priceguide). This, rather than an annual publication that does not correctly represent vacillating price manifestations in the market.

If a place like Overstreet were to detect an growing interest and cover Valiant in depth, then Greg should be credited and perhaps even paid to write that section as he may be considered an expert in the current pricing dimensions. Furthermore, Overstreet pricing is controlled primarily by what brick and mortar stores are selling through the input of guys such as Jamie Graham, Chuck Rozanski and Michael Malve.

Edit for addition: long live those nibblers

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:08 am

slym2none wrote:
ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:And why are n00bs dictating at us....?
This guy is no Rai92... I'm not even paying attention to him.

-slym

yeah no *SQUEE*....this guy could carry rai42's jockstrap...hell he couldnt even be in the same room as his jock...every first post should start by explaining, in as few words as possible, why they are not as good as rai42.

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:33 am

I appreciate the sentiment

I have been an advisor to Overstreet for the past four years.

In addition to my Market Report and suggested Price Changes,
I have also supplied Overstreet with a list of additions/corrections/changes
to the listings in their guide (completely unrelated to prices).

For an example of what I've been providing them, check here.
(I sent them a nice document from Word, but this .txt is for all to see without having to have Word installed.)

Some of these suggestions have been implemented in the past four years,
while others, as you mentioned in your first post, have not.

In the current price guide (36th edition), my Market Report was not printed,
which I believe is because a few advisors were left out alphabetically,
probably overlooked or accidentally deleted from the section.
(There are a few other advisors with "H" lastnames who are missing.)

At any rate, I would obviously like for Overstreet to be a better product,
with respect to their VALIANT listings.

Their Acclaim listings are even worse, but I figured I would take it one step at a time.

I'm not sure if a "barrage" of emails/letters stating the same thing would be helpful,
or if it would look like someone (presumably me) was "mobilizing the troops"
with regard to a short-lived publisher who's been "dead" for 10 years.

Grassroots efforts often pay off, as is the case with the VALIANT website(s),
but I don't know where Overstreet might draw the line between grassroots and "plague of locusts".

IMJ · Post by **IMJ** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:45 am

who ya talkin to here, oh grandmaster?

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:05 am

IMJ wrote:who ya talkin to here, oh grandmaster?

Well, the post is directed toward mnc93's comments in the original post,
to give some examples of the previous attempts at Overstreet correction.

But I guess I'm generally wary of mass-movements of people who could
blur the line between helpful and harmful, particularly if they appear
to be speaking "on behalf" of someone else, and not sure of the "tone"
they might be conveying with their words.

Uh... so... what am I saying here?

Maybe this is my point:
"Don't do anything to get me or the site on the wrong side of the comic book industry's few allies."
...and...
"When speaking on behalf of someone, don't. Speak on behalf of yourself."

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:11 am

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:
mnc93 wrote:
betterthanezra wrote:I have for one sent this very info to Gemstone to only have NO response from them PERIOD.

I'm not knocking anything you wrote but it would have to be a VERY large voice to Gemstone for them to change anything at this point IMO.

have we lost focus? ummmmmmmmmmm yeah we chat about a universe thats been dead for 9 years VH-1 and6 years VH-2....so focus could be fuzzy at this point.

-Brian
That is why we need to do this as a community and not just one person. But with the previous responses I got earlier, what's the point. If this is the way they treat forum members then I should just leave this website.
Pack your bags, we're going on a guilt trip...

do you think that has ever worked?

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:51 am

DawgPhan wrote:
slym2none wrote:
ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:And why are n00bs dictating at us....?
This guy is no Rai92... I'm not even paying attention to him.

-slym
yeah no *SKREE*....this guy could carry rai42's jockstrap...hell he couldnt even be in the same room as his jock...every first post should start by explaining, in as few words as possible, why they are not as good as rai42.

For anyone who has yet to read what we're talking about, page 20 of the latest topic to be thrown in TO, read the whole page if you'd like, but check out the 3rd and then the 5th posts on that page.

(BTW - it's Rai92, Dawggie...)

-slym

IMJ · Post by **IMJ** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:00 pm

greg wrote:
IMJ wrote:who ya talkin to here, oh grandmaster?
Well, the post is directed toward mnc93's comments in the original post,
to give some examples of the previous attempts at Overstreet correction.

But I guess I'm generally wary of mass-movements of people who could
blur the line between helpful and harmful, particularly if they appear
to be speaking "on behalf" of someone else, and not sure of the "tone"
they might be conveying with their words.

Uh... so... what am I saying here?

Maybe this is my point:
"Don't do anything to get me or the site on the wrong side of the comic book industry's few allies."
...and...
"When speaking on behalf of someone, don't. Speak on behalf of yourself."

Ah. Agreed, thank you sir! I wasn't sure if that was that was in regards to my previous post in which I had strung out a scenerio in which that might happen, although had recomended against it.