HARBINGER #26 -- Signed Valiant/Wizard Premium--PICS ADDED

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:22 pm

Hi all-
I was digging through a box of stuff & found what I think might be a 'missing' VVSS book from Valiant!
We all know that the X-O Database VVSS was issued through Wizard from Valiant for filling out a survey. Well, before this came out, Valiant had sent out a signed edition of Harbinger #26 that came WITH the Wizard survey.

Included with the comic & survey are letters from both Wizard & Valiant, saying that the Harbinger #26 is the 1st of two free signed editions coming from Valiant (the 2nd being the X-O Database). It is signed in silver ink by Sean Chen. It has no COA or embossing (just like the X-O Database VVSS).

I can already hear all the 100%er's out there collectively groan, but should this be included as a VVSS edition? It came directly from Valiant through Wizard, just like the X-O Database. It is the missing Ying to the X-O Database's Yang, so to speak.

Does anyone have a signed copy like this? I have mine in its original mailer & mylar, with all the letters & survey. What does anyone else think on this?---Steve G

On a side note, I found another 'Virgin' Flat. This one is of Shadowman #0, signed by Bob Hall.

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:39 pm

Vault-Keeper wrote:Included with the comic & survey are letters from both Wizard & Valiant, saying that the Harbinger #26 is the 1st of two free signed editions coming from Valiant

It's great you find these things for us. It's like historical research. I get the feeling they didn't quite have the concept yet when they did this one and the XO one. Like, this was the prototype for what came later.

I can already hear all the 100%er's out there collectively groan,

Well, I'm already groaning at the newsstand versions (little PS, I actually bought the VvsVU comics off eBay, both picture and description said newsstand version, but I got the direct version. The seller, who's been in the biz forever, didn't even know there were two versions).

but should this be included as a VVSS edition? It came directly from Valiant through Wizard, just like the X-O Database. It is the missing Ying to the X-O Database's Yang, so to speak.

Well, as stated above I'm not at 100% anyways... Generally my personal feeling would depend on the exact wording of the letter. It most certainly is an item for Dino's list.

Does anyone have a signed copy like this? I have mine in its original mailer & mylar, with all the letters & survey. What does anyone else think on this?---Steve G

I think you've found an important part of the Valiant history.

/Magnus

qrnd · Post by **qrnd** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:00 pm

Is it a logo'd Wizard mylar? Im thinking your mailer and letters which accompany the book might be the only authentications possible. Definately an add to the 100% list if your counting the other Wizard as validated.

valiantdude · Post by **valiantdude** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:04 pm

How many more VH1,2, or 3 variants are still undiscovered? i was sure that the xo game variant was the last unknown valiant,especially with all of us constantly collecting and with this forum being up for so long but this was the first time this has been found. Is it possible that there is still more mysterty comics? Iwonder what the print run was for it? Does anyone else,including Greg, have a copy of this, especially with the letter and such? Is this the only confirmed copy in existance?

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:09 pm

Vault-Keeper wrote:Hi all-
I was digging through a box of stuff & found what I think might be a 'missing' VVSS book from Valiant!
We all know that the X-O Database VVSS was issued through Wizard from Valiant for filling out a survey. Well, before this came out, Valiant had sent out a signed edition of Harbinger #26 that came WITH the Wizard survey.

My X-O database came directly from Valiant and had nothing to do with Wizard according to the certificate that came with it.

justin · Post by **justin** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:19 pm

Upon pictures I would say to include it in the VVSS category, because we include the Wizard X-O 1/2 and X-O 1/2 gold in the 800 plus comics to be complete.

And the hunt continues.......
-A

greg · Post by **greg** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:25 pm

architect wrote:Upon pictures I would say to include it in the VVSS category, because we include the Wizard X-O 1/2 and X-O 1/2 gold in the 800 plus comics to be complete.

Wizard X-O 1/2 and X-O 1/2 Gold are included because of the exclusive
original covers/content. That's a requirement for inclusion.

VVSS are "verified" by their embossing and certificates...

Perhaps we've allowed Bloodshot 6 and X-O Database signed books
to masquerade too long as VVSS books, when they can't be absolutely
verified in the same way?
We've got questions of ink color... we don't always have COAs...

So... do we need to add Harbinger #26?
Or do we need to remove Bloodshot 6 and X-O Database?

justin · Post by **justin** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 3:04 pm

greg wrote:Perhaps we've allowed Bloodshot 6 and X-O Database signed books to masquerade too long as VVSS books, when they can't be absolutely verified in the same way? We've got questions of ink color... we don't always have COAs...

Now that is an idea! If its not from Valiant, how can we be so sure!

-A

jusdb · Post by **jusdb** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:36 pm

i would vote to remove...b/c i don't have either yet.

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:46 pm

Hi all-
I've just now relocated this stuff. It's been a long time since I went through it all. Here is what the letters say:

On Wizard Letterhead:

December 28, 1993

Dear Retailer:
Happy new year! I hope this proves to be an excellent year for your business. As a special demonstration of thanks for your participation in the nationwide survey network, we've enclosed two suprises. The first is a special "Certified Superstore" certificate, for you to display proudly in your store. The other premium is the first of two free, signed Valiant comics. Be sure to read the enclosed cover letter from Valiant itself about this book and the second one, which will be shipped with your survey packet next month.

We hope you like the certificate, and enjoy this special copy of The New Harbingers #26, and we thank you once again for your participation. Best of luck with your business in 1994.

Cordially, Gareb Shamus,
Publisher & Big Cheese, Wizard
----------------------------------

The second letter is also from Wizard, by Assistant Editor Marc Wilkofsky, about the survey, Entertainment Retailing magazine, & a Letter of the Month insentive from ER where the author gets a free Valiant Gold book, starting with issue #8.

The 3rd letter is from Valiant, on Red logo Voyager stationary, from December 2, 1993. It is to Leading Comics Retailers Everywhere, from Marty Stevers, VP Marketing. The subject is Hot Artists. It goes on for about five paragraphs about Sean Chen & Bernard Chang. It's too long to retype right now.

Then there is a three page survey, & the comic, in a Wizard Authentic Pro Gard sleeve, which is in a cardboard holder.

So there are the basic details.---Steve G

Brother J · Post by **Brother J** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:02 pm

Hmm, tough question. I'd have to say it sounds as legitimate as the X-O Database #1 VVSS, since both were put out by Valiant partnered with some other company (Wizard in this case, Diamond in the case of the X-O Database). There doesn't seem to be a good way to verify these because unless the documentation is with them, there's nothing to show it's any different from a plain old signed copy. We've all noted that there seemed to be different signatures on the X-O Database book, even ones that are similiarily signed in silver ink. I think you almost have to either keep both or dump both. The Bloodshot #6 VVSS is a different animal to me. Both copies I have had have come with the Valiant mylar. It's a mylar with a larger Valiant logo that was molded into the sleeve. I think if it comes with this sleeve, it's definitely authentic, otherwise, you can't be sure.

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:29 pm

Ditto. Mine was direct from Valiant, with a letter. The letter Greg has a scan of is mine. Where does wizard fit in? Maybe the H26 was a wizard thing?

x-omatic wrote:
Vault-Keeper wrote:Hi all-
I was digging through a box of stuff & found what I think might be a 'missing' VVSS book from Valiant!
We all know that the X-O Database VVSS was issued through Wizard from Valiant for filling out a survey. Well, before this came out, Valiant had sent out a signed edition of Harbinger #26 that came WITH the Wizard survey.

My X-O database came directly from Valiant and had nothing to do with Wizard according to the certificate that came with it.

valiantdude · Post by **valiantdude** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:08 pm

Because of the fact that Valiant provided a cover letter explaining that it was a joint-promoton in conjunction with the xo database , it is pretty obviuos to me that it is a "Valiant promotional comic" whether you consider it a vvss is another story, but in my opinion if you think you need all the valiant promo comics to be 100% then you need this comic. End of story. I mean the comic was distibuted by Valiant to wizard, Thats like saying xo 1/2 isnt a true valiant comic because it was produced in conjunction with wizard, which isnt itself a comic company.

fryabusa · Post by **fryabusa** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:12 pm

I have a Harbinger #26 that came autographed and with a letter from Valiant. The letter basically thanks dealers for supporting Valiant and says to check out our 2 new guys, Chen and Chang. Obviously Chen signed the Harbinger and Chang signed a copy of Dr. Mirage.

dino · Post by **dino** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:17 pm

I say add it to the checklist. I bet quite a few of these out there. I remember before the VVSS's were added they were very difficult to find, but now all you have to do is have the money and the books are there.

The letter is what really makes me think it should be added.

Hey Steve, can we get a picture? I'd love to see what the sigs look like

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:47 pm

Doesn't the X-O database say something about it being a special VVSS in the letter or certificate?

dino · Post by **dino** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:49 pm

x-omatic wrote:Doesn't the X-O database say something about it being a special VVSS in the letter or certificate?

Yes it does

http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/fo ... tabase+coa

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:42 pm

dino wrote:
x-omatic wrote:Doesn't the X-O database say something about it being a special VVSS in the letter or certificate?
Yes it does

http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/fo ... tabase+coa

I thought that was why it was included in the list as one of the VVSS issues.
Do the letters on the Harbinger say it is part of the VVSS series?

dino · Post by **dino** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:44 pm

x-omatic wrote:
dino wrote:
x-omatic wrote:Doesn't the X-O database say something about it being a special VVSS in the letter or certificate?
Yes it does

http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/fo ... tabase+coa
I thought that was why it was included in the list as one of the VVSS issues.
Do the letters on the Harbinger say it is part of the VVSS series?

Damn good question

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:43 am

Vault-Keeper wrote:The other premium is the first of two free, signed Valiant comics. Be sure to read the enclosed cover letter from Valiant itself about this book and the second one, which will be shipped with your survey packet next month.

We hope you like the certificate, and enjoy this special copy of The New Harbingers #26, and we thank you once again for your participation. Best of luck with your business in 1994.

So there are the basic details.---Steve G

It doesn't state VVSS, but it does say that Harbinger #26 is the first of TWO signed Premiums. I had this comic with the original survey, which explains why I never got an X-O Database until recently, & not back in 1994, when the survey should have been sent in!:) I think this makes the two of them a pair or signed set. Also remember that not all copies of the X-O Database have a COA, & they were probably distributed from maybe three sources--Valiant, Diamond, & Wizard. Pics will be up soon.---Steve G

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:04 pm

Vault-Keeper wrote:
Vault-Keeper wrote:The other premium is the first of two free, signed Valiant comics. Be sure to read the enclosed cover letter from Valiant itself about this book and the second one, which will be shipped with your survey packet next month.

We hope you like the certificate, and enjoy this special copy of The New Harbingers #26, and we thank you once again for your participation. Best of luck with your business in 1994.

So there are the basic details.---Steve G
It doesn't state VVSS, but it does say that Harbinger #26 is the first of TWO signed Premiums. I had this comic with the original survey, which explains why I never got an X-O Database until recently, & not back in 1994, when the survey should have been sent in!:) I think this makes the two of them a pair or signed set. Also remember that not all copies of the X-O Database have a COA, & they were probably distributed from maybe three sources--Valiant, Diamond, & Wizard. Pics will be up soon.---Steve G

That settles it for me. If it doesn't say VVSS it is not a VVSS. The second signed book could have been another book. It doesn't have to be the X-O Database since in fact it doesn't state what the 2nd book even is. Who knows it might not even had been done. As we all know the X-O database had nothing to do with Wizard as it came from Diamond & Valiant.

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:30 pm

Can I make a suggestion?

Steve, how difficult would it be to create different "tiers" of completeness? I don't want to create more work for you (lord knows you do enough for the website already) but I was just thinking that seeing as we all have different opinions of what consitutes a complete set, if might make sense to set up some sort of tiered or layered completion system.

One copy (any time) is each Valiant storyline (tpb would counts as the issues collected)

One copy of each regular Valiant comics

One copy of each printed comic, including Variants (not VVSS)

One copy of each Valiant produced item (VVSS, variants, Valiant Voice, etc)

etc etc.

That way, people could stop at whatever level they feel comfortable, feeling they got a complete XYZ collection, but aren't listed as missing certain things they aren't interested in?

Of course, by trying to complete a collection, we are ALL giving into our obsessive natures, and even if we get to one level ,we will probably want to get to the next.

Anyway, I say if something isn't printed as a VVSS, its not a VVSS.

It would be interesting to see what happens to prices of the XO DAtabase "VVSS" for example, if it is removed from the price guide as a distinct variant.

Hey, theres and idea. One price guide for non registered people, and one price guide that you have to register at the website to see (but we don't mention a difference). Then, all the people using this site for simply gettings prices for their auctions, we could provide them with lower prices.

Let's manipulate the market!!

Chris
Chris

dino · Post by **dino** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:33 pm

Greg kinda does that in the inventory with 100% of regular issues, 100% of variants etc.

It would be interesting to see what happens to prices of the XO DAtabase "VVSS" for example, if it is removed from the price guide as a distinct variant.

I bet it would take a big hit.

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:33 pm

cjv wrote: Hey, theres and idea. One price guide for non registered people, and one price guide that you have to register at the website to see (but we don't mention a difference). Then, all the people using this site for simply gettings prices for their auctions, we could provide them with lower prices. Let's manipulate the market!!

Chris
Chris

When did you start working for Wizard?

Shakespeare · Post by **Shakespeare** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:15 am

Not so sure about Bloodshot #6, but X-O Database belongs...after all, the COA says "we hope you will enjoy these copies...an edition of the Valiant Validated Signature Series." That seems cut and dried to me.

S

ValiantFans.com Board - Since 2004

HARBINGER #26 -- Signed Valiant/Wizard Premium--PICS ADDED

HARBINGER #26 -- Signed Valiant/Wizard Premium--PICS ADDED

Re: "Lost" VVSS Book Rediscovered!

Re: "Lost" VVSS Book Rediscovered!

Re: "Lost" VVSS Book Rediscovered!