Top Ten Relaunch wishes

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:57:25 am

Ok, gang. A discussion I had made me think of this. What to your mind are the top ten characters/concepts you see as a must for VEI to launch with? Not right out of the gate, mind you, but ten things you want to see, or characters/concepts, within the first 6-12 months?

hulk181man · Post by **hulk181man** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:00:04 pm

1) High Quality story telling
2) Quality artwork
3) All the great classic characters returning
4) The best Acclaim concepts incorporated into the mix - Quantum and Woody!

Ok...that's only 4....

IanAlexavier · Post by **IanAlexavier** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:09:13 pm

hulk181man wrote:1) High Quality story telling
2) Quality artwork
3) All the great classic characters returning
4) The best Acclaim concepts incorporated into the mix - Quantum and Woody!

5) I always liked the tight continuity!
6)A small number of Titles... start with 3-4, never get over 10??
7) Books for young adolescents and more aged people to enjoy?

kevinbastos · Post by **kevinbastos** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:12:47 pm

hulk181man wrote:1) High Quality story telling
2) Quality artwork
3) All the great classic characters returning
4) The best Acclaim concepts incorporated into the mix - Quantum and Woody!

Ok...that's only 4....

LIMITED premiums, multiple copy variants, rare collectibles (no more signed limited Hartford Comic-con exclusive newsstand version).

On-time publication

Continuity

Crossover with Dark Key?

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:17:49 pm

Good ideas so far. Any SPECIFIC characters or CONCEPTS that you that want to see?

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:18:57 pm

kevinbastos wrote:LIMITED premiums, multiple copy variants, rare collectibles (no more signed limited Hartford Comic-con exclusive newsstand version).

How about this... NO variants.

Seriously.

What do variants do? They make the majority of a print run undesirable.
Who wants the regular version when there's a Gold?

Instead of making Valiant comics where the majority of the print run is undesirable... have NO variants.
EVERY copy of important books becomes important.

kevinbastos · Post by **kevinbastos** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:20:06 pm

greg wrote:
kevinbastos wrote:LIMITED premiums, multiple copy variants, rare collectibles (no more signed limited Hartford Comic-con exclusive newsstand version).
How about this... NO variants.

Seriously.

Even better.

If you need variants, exclusive multiple cover polybagged with five different insert versions...

You're not doing it right.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:23:39 pm

One thing that comes to mind is to see the return of Japan's Dragon City and Tohru as Rai. I just loved that whole concept and I think it was a huge mistake when they got rid of both.

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:24:27 pm

Daniel Jackson wrote:One thing that comes to mind is to see the return of Japan's Dragon City and Tohru as Rai. I just loved that whole concept and I think it was a huge mistake when they got rid of both.

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:39:30 pm

1) Bob Hall version of Shadowman
2) Quantum & Woody (but as a comic book/cartoon that exists within the Valiant universe so that book has its own set of rules and continuity - that's the only way it will work)
3) Eternal Warrior/Geomancers/Armstrong dynamic - Geomancers as the voice of the Earth. Eternal Warrior as the fist of the Earth. Armstrong as the heart/conscience of the Earth.
4) No typical "super hero" costumes with capes and symbols. Or limit them to characters like Zephyr.
5) No crazy "mutant" looking characters. Everybody should have a pretty normal physical appearance. Think original Harbingers as opposed to X-Men. Exceptions being characters like Bloodshot and Rai.
6) Don't follow conventional super-hero comic book themes. Do something more original than having a super team with a charismatic and handsome leader, a huge muscular strong man, a mysterious but deadly woman with a sword, and an aggressive loner "bad *SQUEE*" guy that plays by his own rules. That kind of stuff has been done too many times. Be original.
7) No variants.
8) Did I say no variants? I meant only have variants as free prizes to fans just like the original Valiant.
9) Keep prices reasonable and don't put out a ton of books.
10) Bob Hall's version of Shadowman.

Basically, if they stick to the core concepts of the original Valiant, even if they reboot continuity and tell all new stories but fitting in with those original concepts and philosophies, then I think they'll be a success.

kevinbastos · Post by **kevinbastos** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:40:37 pm

Daniel Jackson wrote:One thing that comes to mind is to see the return of Japan's Dragon City and Tohru as Rai. I just loved that whole concept and I think it was a huge mistake when they got rid of both.

Rai was my fave, too. Liked him a bunch. Killing him brought the universe to focus in a lot of ways - both as a universe, and a comic company. Nothing was sacred anymore.

That said, I'd like to see him, again.

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:50:38 pm

greg wrote:
kevinbastos wrote:LIMITED premiums, multiple copy variants, rare collectibles (no more signed limited Hartford Comic-con exclusive newsstand version).
How about this... NO variants.

Seriously.

How 'bout just a couple variants.

You know, for like, me.

BruceReville · Post by **BruceReville** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:54:15 pm

1) A Nod To The Old School
2) Lost Land Exists
2) The Destroyer
4) Mothergod Erica Pierce
5) Shadowman Michael LeRoi
6) Troublemakers
7) Bloodshot Amalgamation Of The Two
8) Expand The Role Of The Geomancer
9) Joshua Fireseed Spirit Warrior
10) Sting Peter Stanchek Made As The Utlimate Hero Since There Is No Solar In This Universe.

geocarr · Post by **geocarr** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:54:24 pm

kevinbastos wrote:On-time publication

Given problems in recent years across Marvel, DC, and Dark Horse, this one is HUGE for me and makes a big difference in my purchasing decisions. I stopped buying new comics last June 2010 largely for this reason.

dbngaa · Post by **dbngaa** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:56:40 pm

Dr. Solar, you got a gold book before for promoting Valiant, surely you can do it again. Maybe start up a podcast or something to show how much you enjoy the new comics.

marvel1 · Post by **marvel1** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:58:35 pm

greg wrote:
kevinbastos wrote:LIMITED premiums, multiple copy variants, rare collectibles (no more signed limited Hartford Comic-con exclusive newsstand version).
How about this... NO variants.

Seriously.

What do variants do? They make the majority of a print run undesirable.
Who wants the regular version when there's a Gold?

Instead of making Valiant comics where the majority of the print run is undesirable... have NO variants.
EVERY copy of important books becomes important.

Though i agree with you %1000,variants are a neccesary evil in the market,through second/third printings and variants most companies are seeing an increase in sales.
They need to do variants but for books that warrant them.

BruceReville · Post by **BruceReville** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:06:20 pm

geocarr wrote:
kevinbastos wrote:On-time publication
Given problems in recent years across Marvel, DC, and Dark Horse, this one is HUGE for me and makes a big difference in my purchasing decisions. I stopped buying new comics last June 2010 largely for this reason.

This would be the #1 killer of the new Valiant Line. It was probably the biggest killer to the Dark Key line - really has anyone spoken of them recently on these boards since the "Hiatus" was announced?

Even the Atlas relaunch is running behind. June was suppose to be issue 4 of each title and their big crossover is suppose to be issue 6 of the titles in August. Issue 2 of the titles just hit the LCS shelves 2 weeks ago? It took 5 months between Grim Ghost & Pheonix #0 and issue#1.

Both were building steam and now they seem to be cooling off just as fast.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:13:17 pm

BruceReville wrote:
geocarr wrote:
kevinbastos wrote:On-time publication
Given problems in recent years across Marvel, DC, and Dark Horse, this one is HUGE for me and makes a big difference in my purchasing decisions. I stopped buying new comics last June 2010 largely for this reason.
This would be the #1 killer of the new Valiant Line. It was probably the biggest killer to the Dark Key line - really has anyone spoken of them recently on these boards since the "Hiatus" was announced?

Even the Atlas relaunch is running behind. June was suppose to be issue 4 of each title and their big crossover is suppose to be issue 6 of the titles in August. Issue 2 of the titles just hit the LCS shelves 2 weeks ago? It took 5 months between Grim Ghost & Pheonix #0 and issue#1.

Both were building steam and now they seem to be cooling off just as fast.

Agreed. I can deal with off schedules if one of three things happen:

# 1. The schedule is changing and you know ahead of time that the book will be delayed 2-6 weeks to accomodate it.

# 2. The issue is 3 or 4 times large than normal and is only delayed by 2 weeks or so. Case in point, Fables # 100.

# 3. Something happened to the creative team, ie, death in the family/serious illness. See Chew, once or twice in the last year.

Especially on creator owned books, I am forgiving under these circumstances. Still, there's no excuse to constantly have books delayed by a month every single issue. A book should have a set schedule. Missing a week once a year because of printing errors or something, that might be fine. MAYBE. Otherwise, there better be a damn good explination.

wrunow · Post by **wrunow** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:18:20 pm

greg wrote:
kevinbastos wrote:LIMITED premiums, multiple copy variants, rare collectibles (no more signed limited Hartford Comic-con exclusive newsstand version).
How about this... NO variants.

Seriously.

What do variants do? They make the majority of a print run undesirable.
Who wants the regular version when there's a Gold?

Instead of making Valiant comics where the majority of the print run is undesirable... have NO variants.
EVERY copy of important books becomes important.

Great idea-How many Unity Reds do you have Greg?

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:20:23 pm

wrunow wrote:
greg wrote:
kevinbastos wrote:LIMITED premiums, multiple copy variants, rare collectibles (no more signed limited Hartford Comic-con exclusive newsstand version).
How about this... NO variants.

Seriously.

What do variants do? They make the majority of a print run undesirable.
Who wants the regular version when there's a Gold?

Instead of making Valiant comics where the majority of the print run is undesirable... have NO variants.
EVERY copy of important books becomes important.
Great idea-How many Unity Reds do you have Greg?

The real question is... how important would Unity #0 Blue be if it was the ONLY version?
We treat 250,000 copies of Unity #0 as worthless BECAUSE there are 5,000 of another version.

Every copy of Unity #0 should be important... but we ignore 98% of the print run.

BruceReville · Post by **BruceReville** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:23:39 pm

xodacia81 wrote:
BruceReville wrote:
geocarr wrote:
kevinbastos wrote:On-time publication
Given problems in recent years across Marvel, DC, and Dark Horse, this one is HUGE for me and makes a big difference in my purchasing decisions. I stopped buying new comics last June 2010 largely for this reason.
This would be the #1 killer of the new Valiant Line. It was probably the biggest killer to the Dark Key line - really has anyone spoken of them recently on these boards since the "Hiatus" was announced?

Even the Atlas relaunch is running behind. June was suppose to be issue 4 of each title and their big crossover is suppose to be issue 6 of the titles in August. Issue 2 of the titles just hit the LCS shelves 2 weeks ago? It took 5 months between Grim Ghost & Pheonix #0 and issue#1.

Both were building steam and now they seem to be cooling off just as fast.
Agreed. I can deal with off schedules if one of three things happen:

# 1. The schedule is changing and you know ahead of time that the book will be delayed 2-6 weeks to accomodate it.

# 2. The issue is 3 or 4 times large than normal and is only delayed by 2 weeks or so. Case in point, Fables # 100.

# 3. Something happened to the creative team, ie, death in the family/serious illness. See Chew, once or twice in the last year.

Especially on creator owned books, I am forgiving under these circumstances. Still, there's no excuse to constantly have books delayed by a month every single issue. A book should have a set schedule. Missing a week once a year because of printing errors or something, that might be fine. MAYBE. Otherwise, there better be a damn good explination.

IMO It wouldn't hurt to have at least the first three months already in print or 100% ready to be sent to the printers before solicitations. They are planning a 2012 relaunch and they have finacial backing so why not?

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:25:14 pm

BruceReville wrote:
xodacia81 wrote:
BruceReville wrote:
geocarr wrote:
kevinbastos wrote:On-time publication
Given problems in recent years across Marvel, DC, and Dark Horse, this one is HUGE for me and makes a big difference in my purchasing decisions. I stopped buying new comics last June 2010 largely for this reason.
This would be the #1 killer of the new Valiant Line. It was probably the biggest killer to the Dark Key line - really has anyone spoken of them recently on these boards since the "Hiatus" was announced?

Even the Atlas relaunch is running behind. June was suppose to be issue 4 of each title and their big crossover is suppose to be issue 6 of the titles in August. Issue 2 of the titles just hit the LCS shelves 2 weeks ago? It took 5 months between Grim Ghost & Pheonix #0 and issue#1.

Both were building steam and now they seem to be cooling off just as fast.
Agreed. I can deal with off schedules if one of three things happen:

# 1. The schedule is changing and you know ahead of time that the book will be delayed 2-6 weeks to accomodate it.

# 2. The issue is 3 or 4 times large than normal and is only delayed by 2 weeks or so. Case in point, Fables # 100.

# 3. Something happened to the creative team, ie, death in the family/serious illness. See Chew, once or twice in the last year.

Especially on creator owned books, I am forgiving under these circumstances. Still, there's no excuse to constantly have books delayed by a month every single issue. A book should have a set schedule. Missing a week once a year because of printing errors or something, that might be fine. MAYBE. Otherwise, there better be a damn good explination.
IMO It wouldn't hurt to have at least the first three months already in print or 100% ready to be sent to the printers before solicitations. They are planning a 2012 relaunch and they have finacial backing so why not?

I'm with you there. I think books should be readied 4-6 months ahead of time. There should be 4-6 months of scripts ready and the artwork should be finished 3-6 months ahead of schedule. Especially when launching a title.

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:28:37 pm

dbngaa wrote:Dr. Solar, you got a gold book before for promoting Valiant, surely you can do it again. Maybe start up a podcast or something to show how much you enjoy the new comics.

I should *totally* do this.

wrunow · Post by **wrunow** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:51:45 pm

greg wrote:
wrunow wrote:
greg wrote:
kevinbastos wrote:LIMITED premiums, multiple copy variants, rare collectibles (no more signed limited Hartford Comic-con exclusive newsstand version).
How about this... NO variants.

Seriously.

What do variants do? They make the majority of a print run undesirable.
Who wants the regular version when there's a Gold?

Instead of making Valiant comics where the majority of the print run is undesirable... have NO variants.
EVERY copy of important books becomes important.
Great idea-How many Unity Reds do you have Greg?
The real question is... how important would Unity #0 Blue be if it was the ONLY version?
We treat 250,000 copies of Unity #0 as worthless BECAUSE there are 5,000 of another version.

Every copy of Unity #0 should be important... but we ignore 98% of the print run.

I don't think so Greg, it's a good book and everyone has a blue one and they're readily available, I don't think that diminishes the value of the story or art. It's just supply and demand and it makes sense to keep the hard core collectors happy. I personally think any premium copies should be even more premium than something like the gold books were. I think they should make it a limited high end collectable for high end collectors.

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:15:17 pm

wrunow wrote:
greg wrote:
wrunow wrote:
greg wrote:
kevinbastos wrote:LIMITED premiums, multiple copy variants, rare collectibles (no more signed limited Hartford Comic-con exclusive newsstand version).
How about this... NO variants.

Seriously.

What do variants do? They make the majority of a print run undesirable.
Who wants the regular version when there's a Gold?

Instead of making Valiant comics where the majority of the print run is undesirable... have NO variants.
EVERY copy of important books becomes important.
Great idea-How many Unity Reds do you have Greg?
The real question is... how important would Unity #0 Blue be if it was the ONLY version?
We treat 250,000 copies of Unity #0 as worthless BECAUSE there are 5,000 of another version.

Every copy of Unity #0 should be important... but we ignore 98% of the print run.
I don't think so Greg, it's a good book and everyone has a blue one and they're readily available, I don't think that diminishes the value of the story or art. It's just supply and demand and it makes sense to keep the hard core collectors happy. I personally think any premium copies should be even more premium than something like the gold books were. I think they should make it a limited high end collectable for high end collectors.

The problem with the high end collectible is that it kills the normal.

Imagine a super-limited Harbinger #1 from 1992.
What would happen to the regular Harbinger #1? It would be a tenth of the value.
95% of the print run for one of Valiant's most popular comics would be "less than the best".

Why is a book like Bone #1 or Walking Dead #1 so popular 10 or 20 years later?
Because there aren't any "limited variants" for either book.

Meanwhile, one of the most important books from the past 25 years is probably Spider-man #1 (1990).
Which edition matters? Platinum. Gold with UPC.
What do collectors think about 99% of the other copies in existence? Crap.

Comic publishers shouldn't make crap comics on purpose...
but in the long run, limited editions ALWAYS make crap out of the regular editions.