A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

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A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by manga4life »

As sad as I am to have to do this I think its time for me to drop Archer & Armstrong. This isn't a decision that comes lightly mind you, the book isn't terrible or anything but I find that I'm not a huge fan of the two main characters and I'm having a hard time embracing the story as a whole. It's well written and illustrated nicely but the story just isn't for me and I promised myself that by issue #5 if I wasn't floored by the book than I would let it go, so that's what I'm doing. Don't get me wrong, if something important happens within the book or if important debuts start popping up for important characters than I will grab an issue here and there, and if some of the solicitations sound really good I will grab those issues too, but as of right now this book (in my opinion) is not nearly as good as the other four Valiant publishes and I'm sadly dropping it for the time being.
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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by xodacia81 »

For my money, it's the best of the lot, or was, last time I read it. Need to catch up on the last couple issues. A&A has always been an aq'd taste, though. Oh well. At least it is selling well.

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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by Chiclo »

I understand how someone could not get into A&A. I started out not liking the book but now it is vying with Shadowman to see which is my third favourite of the line.

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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

I'm planning to support the book for the first 12 issues then assess the situation again. A&A is an ok book with potential to be much better, but there are a few minor details about the book that bug me.

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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by BugsySig »

I thought the first arc was great, and A&A and Harbinger were the only books I would immediately read a second time.

I was not a huge fan of issue #5, however. Whether it was heightened expectations because of EW's first appearance or what, I don't know, but I was disappointed.

Part of it was that, of all the VALIANT books, A&A has been the most jam packed, non-decompressed of the group. Meanwhile, by the end of issue 5 we were left basically in the exact same position as the end of issue 4.

I expect that to change with issue 6, though, so I am not giving up yet.
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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

BugsySig wrote:I thought the first arc was great, and A&A and Harbinger were the only books I would immediately read a second time.

I was not a huge fan of issue #5, however. Whether it was heightened expectations because of EW's first appearance or what, I don't know, but I was disappointed.

Part of it was that, of all the VALIANT books, A&A has been the most jam packed, non-decompressed of the group. Meanwhile, by the end of issue 5 we were left basically in the exact same position as the end of issue 4.

I expect that to change with issue 6, though, so I am not giving up yet.
Funny you should reference you preferring compressed story telling, I prefer the exact opposite, ie I like more detail, explanation etc. Just goes to show 'you can't please all the people all of the time'! :hm:

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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by GGSAE »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:I'm planning to support the book for the first 12 issues then assess the situation again. A&A is an ok book with potential to be much better, but there are a few minor details about the book that bug me.
I'm in kind of the same boat, I'm only really buying the book because it's a Valiant title, which is all I read. If there were more titles and I needed to drop one it would be an easy decision. I find the book is just no where near the caliber of the other four.

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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by hawkeyeps »

I agree it is by far the weakest title and issue #5 was weakest book from all of Valiant so far, IMO.

When I think of the other titles they all seem to be getting better with each issue, issue #5 should have been huge and I think Van Lente blew it.

I'm not ready to cut it yet but issue #6 needs to be a dramatic impovement over #5.

On Valiant's FB page they have a picture of the new Harby trade and beneath it is what appears to be a script for Quantum and Woody. Not a title I want at all and likely won't buy especially if it comes out before the so many other way more deserving characters. If that happens and I'm not getting all the books anyway cutting A&A if it doesn't improve will be much easier.

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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by manga4life »

I can see a lot of people agree with me here, lol. Every other Valiant title started off great and got better as they went on, A&A just seems to be going backwards with having been okay but then dipping as it goes. No big deal, I'm totally in love with the other books so I can deal with one being cut from my reading schedule, it isn't like one bad apple is ruining the entire bunch in this instance.
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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by hawkeyeps »

manga4life wrote:I can see a lot of people agree with me here, lol. Every other Valiant title started off great and got better as they went on, A&A just seems to be going backwards with having been okay but then dipping as it goes. No big deal, I'm totally in love with the other books so I can deal with one being cut from my reading schedule, it isn't like one bad apple is ruining the entire bunch in this instance.
Well you certainly can't blame Henry and Lupaccino, I think we all know who the bad apple is. Hopefully we will see a change in writers when this arc wraps up in #8. I''m still excited to get #6 but for completely different reasons than the other Valiant books. With the other books I'm excited about what is happening, with A&A I want to see if it can be salvaged or if the downward trend we saw in #5 was just the begining.

I hope #5 was just an off issue (too bad it was the big debut of EW, missed opertunity there) and the series gets better, it's a very big part of the Valiant universe.

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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by BugsySig »

Now while I disliked issue 5, I don't think the book is terrible or needs a writing change. I really liked the first 4 issues, and thought FVLs voices for the main characters improved with each issue, including #5.

I am curious if, perhaps, EW was injected into A&A early when VEI went with Shadowman as the 5th title? I know the Winter 2012 FCBD teaser didn't necessarily mean a new series, but the way Warren and Fred discussed it when the announcement was made, it sounded like going with Shadowman was a change from an original plan.

I'm not trying to make excuses, but it might explain a "filler" issue this early in the series. Since we know VEI has been getting the scripts done well in advance to prevent any sort of delays, its possible this was a change that prompted some quick adjustments. Just a thought.
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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by Draco »

I thought all the titles were pretty strong in their own right, plus different enough that I can really compare them or put them in any order.
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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by pixierosa »

I was let down by #5 but overall I still enjoy this book. I just re-read #1 (since all the #1s are free right now! woot!) and have to say that I got a kick out of reading it knowing what all the little inferences are this time around. Like the Archers preaching to their "children" how paradise on earth can't happen until he who can't be named is dead -- of course it can't, b/c they need the parts of boon and Armstrong stands in their way. But to the unknowing, it sounds like a biblical origin. Nicely done, Fred.

Also reacquainted myself with what we know about the boon: 1. Aram saying that "we don't know if it will work on humans" -- is it extraterrestrial then? 2. Quoting Genesis, it says every living creation on air and land, which breathes air died. Nothing there about creatures of the ocean. May be nothing, but that's kind of interesting. 3. Where did they retrieve the boon from? It was from the "faraway" and they obviously believed it would bring immortality. Where did they obtain these beliefs? How?

I enjoyed this book much more this time around and for different reasons than why I liked it originally.

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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by tarheelmarine »

manga4life wrote:I can see a lot of people agree with me here, lol. Every other Valiant title started off great and got better as they went on, A&A just seems to be going backwards with having been okay but then dipping as it goes. No big deal, I'm totally in love with the other books so I can deal with one being cut from my reading schedule, it isn't like one bad apple is ruining the entire bunch in this instance.
I would have to disagree. While I am still waiting for #4 and 5 to arrive in the mail I have enjoyed this series. Comments by the sister stating her faith could not be shaken by one person's disbelief are the details that I enjoy about this series as it explores the differences between two very different individuals. I am collecting all of the Valiant titles and this one is in my top 2. I did enjoy the subtle reference to the vine in #3.

I am glad Valiant is publishing different books for different taste (to borrow from Pixierosa's post about the relaunch).

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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by Spylocke »

It's understandable. While I like Fred Van Lente's writing, he is definitely hit and miss with his madcap ideas and style.

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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by 400yrs »

I think this book is not being enjoyed as much by the long timers, but has struck a chord with new readers. It has been getting pretty good praise online.
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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by grendeljd »

I still think A&A #4 may be the best single issue of the entire line to date, and I say that even though I personally place the book in a tie with Bloodshot as the fourth best Valiant title to date.

After #4 came out, I re-read 1-4 a few times, and I sincerely feel that the book is absolutely great. The first story arc is a top notch tale.

I think expectations are (naturally) high for #5 and the first new appearance of Eternal Warrior. It was a letdown for me initially, but I've read that issue a few times now and it gets better each time. I have a feeling the full story arc will be good, and while I have no plans to drop the title, I'm reserving judgement on it until #8 comes out.

Manga4life, you do what you feel is right for you, but I think you should at least consider giving the title a chance up until the EW arc is done...
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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by cavemold »

I liked the firdt arch and the intro EW. Im willing to see where it goes. Its a funny book with action.

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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by Draco »

The art change is # 5 was not a help considering how outstanding the first 4 were, but it wasnt awful, just would have prefered the 1st full App of EW to be a bit tidier. Other than that all books seem more than solid.

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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by kevinbastos »

I may be in a minority, but I thought the first Archer & Armstrong issues were weaker, and took a big turn up at issue 4.
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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by caxiotis »

I didn't care for A&A at first, but i have reread the first four issues numerous times and i now think it is top notch.

I really had to get past the fact that it was not the original VH1.
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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by drmirage »

I am buying all the VEI issues coming out, but I really didn't care much about A&A because it doesn't compare to VH1's A&A. Quite honestly, I was expecting more.

Most of the LCS in Los Angeles I have spoken to said that A&A was the most difficult VEI title to move.

I have even heard a few LCS say that they have yet to sell a single issue of A&A which was quite embarrassing to hear.

Everyone seems to be more into Harbinger > X-O > Bloodshot > Shadowman and A&A is the least favorite. Just like every publisher, not every book can be everyone's favorites.

We have a poll going here and 2 out of 46 votes did go to A&A as their favorite VEI Tittle.

XO Manowar 26% [ 12 ]
Harbinger 59% [ 27 ]
Bloodshot 7% [ 3 ]
Archer & Armstrong 7% [ 3 ]
Shadowman 2% [ 1 ]

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Whats interesting is some members have said that A&A reads better as a whole... Reading issues 1-4 was great compared to just reading a single issue.

If thats the case, it will be very challenging for new readers to spend $15.96 ($3.99 x 4 issues) just to get the whole story. Publishers shouldn't have to let readers read entire story arcs to get that satisfaction. Each issue SHOULD be a wonderful and remarkable story / art altogether. (Like Harbinger) :D

It is quite unfair to compare BWS and Shooter's A&A, but I'm setting the bars high for VEI. Looking at Harbinger, the way the book is written is far better than VH1's Harbinger IMO.

A&A #5... OMG. "Needs more words.... " There I said it.....

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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by Man Of The Atom »

I think A&A is good and is getting better as it goes along, but even if I didn't like it I would still buy multiple copies of each issue.

Do you only read Valiant comics? I am curious how many different titles you read and if you stop reading everything as soon as it is not amazing to you.

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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by carter3175 »

Am I off base by saying that A&A is a notch above Q&W? The tone of the books are similar...I mean is this supposed to be Raiders of the Lost Ark/National Treasure/Highlander? I too find myself buying it because it is valiant and I want to support them. I will buy it and read it but there are others that I will read before I get to it.
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Re: A decision that I had to make regarding A&A...

Post by BugsySig »

carter3175 wrote:Am I off base by saying that A&A is a notch above Q&W? The tone of the books are similar...I mean is this supposed to be Raiders of the Lost Ark/National Treasure/Highlander? I too find myself buying it because it is valiant and I want to support them. I will buy it and read it but there are others that I will read before I get to it.
It's definitely more slapstick than the original (which would put it in Q&W territory), but I always thought the original took itself too seriously considering the wacky plots, concepts, characters and other elements of the book.

I think BWS hit a good balance most of the time, but, like Q&W later, it never quite fit into the grand scheme of the VALIANT universe. To me, at least.
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