X-O Manowar #11 discussion thread

[erwinrafael]

This issue makes me feel conflicted on so many levels. First, the art. The first half of the story, I was going, wow this is the most beautiful art in a Valiant comic so far. And then the second half of the issue, it felt like Nord really ran out of time to ink his stuff and we ended up getting sketchy art which, while not bad, was a stark contrast to the beautifully rendered initial half of the issue.

And then the story. The story is very good. But I am feeling conflicted in that Venditti made me care for the Vine to the point that Aric is starting to read like a villain by the end of the issue.

[BugsySig]

Good points. I thought the same thing about becoming sympathetic to the Vine as I read, though I still enjoyed them being slaughtered I also had the same thoughts about the art.

A few thoughts of my own:

1. Great surprise at the end. As I was reading the summary page on the inside cover I thought, "they keep saying Aric thought all his people were dead, including Gafti" Then, BAM!, there they were.

2. The warrior came from a land "Faraway" and taught them how to access the gatherings, which resembles the Akashic record in most ways. Could the warrior have been a human in the first place? Or I'll say something crazy: Could it have been Ivar?

[grendeljd]

Great issue.

Nords work is definitely heavy handed on the inks, but I love it. The expressive gestures & poses of the figures, the panel compositions... all fantastic. And it all looks extra-superb with the Moose's colours over it.

Loved the story, too - the mythos of the Vine read very well. I don't take any of that literally about the traveller finding the last vine on the planet, growing a single Manowar suit - it really read like a solid myth-taken-for-truth coming from the priest, the kind that has kernels of truth in it that are obscured by time & an evolving belief system. Great stuff. It leaves room for speculation like this;

2. The warrior came from a land "Faraway" and taught them how to access the gatherings, which resembles the Akashic record in most ways. Could the warrior have been a human in the first place? Or I'll say something crazy: Could it have been Ivar?

I have wondered this myself - at least that it could have been a human, or other non-vine being closer to a human. Ivar?! Thats a tad crazy, but I do like the idea - its not impossible. I'd be very curious about what could possibly happen to inspire Ivar to do that...

I thought the same thing about becoming sympathetic to the Vine as I read, though I still enjoyed them being slaughtered

That's a sign of really good writing, I think! The vine are a full blown sentient race, not a pale one-dimensional 'evil empire'. I like having some sympathy for them as Aric enacts his vengeance. I liked that the priest was willing to accept the 'judgement of Shanhara' even though Aric intends to obliterate them all. Is that blind faith in his 'god', or does he see that his race has fallen far in a moral sense? And not every Vine feels the same as him, as it should be.

[grendeljd]

I should also mention - I absolutely love all three covers this month - I got 'em all. Stunning work, I think the one by Rivera is my fav, but man - they're all great.

[grendeljd]

Good points. I thought the same thing about becoming sympathetic to the Vine as I read, though I still enjoyed them being slaughtered I also had the same thoughts about the art.

A few thoughts of my own:

1. Great surprise at the end. As I was reading the summary page on the inside cover I thought, "they keep saying Aric thought all his people were dead, including Gafti" Then, BAM!, there they were.

2. The warrior came from a land "Faraway" and taught them how to access the gatherings, which resembles the Akashic record in most ways. Could the warrior have been a human in the first place? Or I'll say something crazy: Could it have been Ivar?

Alright, now this is starting to percolate in my brain even more... I'll raise you one more level of crazy. What if Aric was the one who came to liberate the Vine from 'the Torment'?

What if at some point in the future, Ivar takes him into the past to save the Vine because it is something that has to be done? If Aric eventually comes to regret his actions in this Planet Death storyline, it would be very poetic if he was the one who had saved them in the past...

[Phoenix8008]

What if the warrior with the armor from the faraway is actually Aric? After a Unity like event where they are all in the lost land (a.k.a. The Faraway), when they return he goes somewhere else in space and time than where he came from just like after Unity. Of course, then what happens to Aric that he leaves the armor behind so that it becomes enshrined in the Vine religion? Also that all of this happened without them realizing he wasn't Vine himself?

[Phoenix8008]

Good points. I thought the same thing about becoming sympathetic to the Vine as I read, though I still enjoyed them being slaughtered I also had the same thoughts about the art.

A few thoughts of my own:

1. Great surprise at the end. As I was reading the summary page on the inside cover I thought, "they keep saying Aric thought all his people were dead, including Gafti" Then, BAM!, there they were.

2. The warrior came from a land "Faraway" and taught them how to access the gatherings, which resembles the Akashic record in most ways. Could the warrior have been a human in the first place? Or I'll say something crazy: Could it have been Ivar?

Alright, now this is starting to percolate in my brain even more... I'll raise you one more level of crazy. What if Aric was the one who came to liberate the Vine from 'the Torment'?

What if at some point in the future, Ivar takes him into the past to save the Vine because it is something that has to be done? If Aric eventually comes to regret his actions in this Planet Death storyline, it would be very poetic if he was the one who had saved them in the past...

Great minds think alike... and so do ours!

[greg]

I should also mention - I absolutely love all three covers this month - I got 'em all. Stunning work, I think the one by Rivera is my fav, but man - they're all great.

I hesitate to point this out... but if you've got three, you're missing a cover.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271175739713" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[greg]

Interesting theories...

Lots to ponder from this issue!

[greg]

"From the bodies of our oppressors, our people were reborn."

Umm... that DOES say "from the bodies" and the artwork does show "from the bodies"... so... No genders? Grown? Plants? Fungi?

[greg]

Maybe the sole wanderer from faraway is from the future... but not Aric... Alexander!

No, wait... the sole wanderer from faraway is... Archer! And the Torment were a race of Immortal Enemies trying to NULLify everything!

[jmatt]

What are you guys talking about? The wanderer from faraway being Ivar or Aric? Only if he has 6 eyes and looks exactly like the Vine.

So here's the dealio: Shanhara helped the Vine free themselves from the Torment. Eventually, the Vine advance and become as cruel as their former overlords. And once again, Shanhara bonds with an oppressed champion, Aric, to help free his people.

And in some future 4000ad title, we will see humans become as repressive as the Torment or the Vine. And Shanhara will choose again.

[greg]

What are you guys talking about? The wanderer from faraway being Ivar or Aric? Only if he has 6 eyes and looks exactly like the Vine.

The theory is that the Vine religion is based on truth, but told from their point of view.
Kind of like a talking snake in our religion.

[Phoenix8008]

What are you guys talking about? The wanderer from faraway being Ivar or Aric? Only if he has 6 eyes and looks exactly like the Vine.

The theory is that the Vine religion is based on truth, but told from their point of view.
Kind of like a talking snake in our religion.

And for me, it was speculating sight unseen. I don't have the book yet, but was jumping in with the theories based on what people had said in this thread only.

[jmatt]

What are you guys talking about? The wanderer from faraway being Ivar or Aric? Only if he has 6 eyes and looks exactly like the Vine.

The theory is that the Vine religion is based on truth, but told from their point of view.
Kind of like a talking snake in our religion.

Speaking of religion, did you see the Christ pose the wanderer takes while floating in the sky with the armor? Arms extended to the sides, one knee slightly raised, as in so many poses on the cross. A little curious.

And hey, did we just see the faceplate crack and heal again?

I agree with another poster that the first half of the book was beautiful and the second half looked a little rushed and over-simple.

But I love those water color skies! So even when we're being cheated out of background art there is a little atmospheric detail to enjoy.

[grendeljd]

What are you guys talking about? The wanderer from faraway being Ivar or Aric? Only if he has 6 eyes and looks exactly like the Vine.

The theory is that the Vine religion is based on truth, but told from their point of view.
Kind of like a talking snake in our religion.

Exactly. I was reading those pages as images conjured by the priest from a religious text or something like that as he spoke. How many times has the bible evolved, been altered/revised & illustrated over the course of 2000+ years? 'Facts' can get obscured, or lost to changes over that amount of time.

Of course the modern day Vine would think the original warrior that wore Shanhara was also of the Vine. Anything else would be anathema to them. Much like the controversy that gets stirred up so easily whenever someone tries to suggest that Jesus was black instead of the 'traditional' image of him as a bearded white man.

[greg]

What are you guys talking about? The wanderer from faraway being Ivar or Aric? Only if he has 6 eyes and looks exactly like the Vine.

The theory is that the Vine religion is based on truth, but told from their point of view.
Kind of like a talking snake in our religion.

Speaking of religion, did you see the Christ pose the wanderer takes while floating in the sky with the armor? Arms extended to the sides, one knee slightly raised, as in so many poses on the cross. A little curious.

I think that particular pose is one of the reasons that the Ivar theory is a pretty good one.

[grendeljd]

I should also mention - I absolutely love all three covers this month - I got 'em all. Stunning work, I think the one by Rivera is my fav, but man - they're all great.

I hesitate to point this out... but if you've got three, you're missing a cover.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271175739713" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ah crap! I actually forgot about the Sears cover!

My shop didn't get it anyway...

[BugsySig]

What are you guys talking about? The wanderer from faraway being Ivar or Aric? Only if he has 6 eyes and looks exactly like the Vine.

The theory is that the Vine religion is based on truth, but told from their point of view.
Kind of like a talking snake in our religion.

Exactly. I was reading those pages as images conjured by the priest from a religious text or something like that as he spoke. How many times has the bible evolved, been altered/revised & illustrated over the course of 2000+ years? 'Facts' can get obscured, or lost to changes over that amount of time.

Of course the modern day Vine would think the original warrior that wore Shanhara was also of the Vine. Anything else would be anathema to them. Much like the controversy that gets stirred up so easily whenever someone tries to suggest that Jesus was black instead of the 'traditional' image of him as a bearded white man.

Just like the classic image of the Judeo-Christian "God" as a grey haired white man, when in actuality he looks like this:

[Zaphod]

really bad art. Interesting story, I wonder if Aric will stop himself before he figures out he is being entirely too much of a "Roman Pig"?

I am not so much a fan of Shanhara being the only X-O class armor, it would seem...unless they are all called Shanhara. Shanhara as it's own sentient race...nah.

to reiterate, really bad art on the second half -- but if it was a matter of shipping the book on time or terrible art, I am torn.

Deadlines are important; these books aren't $1.50.

[bygranddesign]

Yep, I felt the same way about the art

10/10 in the first half(loved the attention to detail in the panels - with the flower and vine imagery looked like something you would see in a "creation" story) ... but the 2nd half seemed pretty rushed especially the action sequences (5/10). Overall the art was 7/10

The story was fantastic(09/10) and I think we are meant to feel sympathetic to the Vine - like someone else mentioned in this thread - they are not the "evil empire". There are those within the Vine who are not violent and evil.

The story of Shanhara and the History of the Vine people was very well done. And I agree with those that say that the images that go along with the story is a depiction of how they believe their world was formed but might not depict the reality of what actually happened or what the wanderer (from the faraway) or the torment actually looked like. So i think there could be a lot of possibilities of who the "wanderer" is including Aric or Ivar via The Faraway ...

[Mandrakk]

Nice story,especially the beginning with the telling of the Vine's origin myth which seems to how real events distorded through the prism of myth,I also liked the nod to faraway,so as I thought the armor(which I do not think is the only one of it's kind or series),if it came from there,can share origins with the Boon.About the race that enslaved the Vine in past times I wonder what they really looked like,heck for all we know it could be Human psiots from the future that arrived on Loam through Faraway.I also like how it was revealed that it was through the armor that the vine learned how to do the gathering.The end with the surving Visgoth was nice too.My big complaint here is the jarring difference in art quality between the begining and the ending of the issue which really put me off.

[TheFallen]

I am not going to say this was a bad issue because I did still enjoy it but I do think it wasn't as good as Bloodshot or Harbinger this month.

I already liked the Vine prior to this issue and, as said in this thread, Aric came off as the villain. Mind you though, he has gone through a lot so he has good reason to be *SQUEE*

[nonplayer]

What if Aric's suit dies and he needs to go back in time to get another one. What if the suit only goes on humans! never vine they had 1000's of years to try vine on it and no takers. What if the vine are not compatible.
Great stoy line. Art was a little crappy. But Acceptable. I would like to see a whole book done in the style of the back storey of the vine.

[erwinrafael]

I think Valiant should just decide to do a Conan on Nord's art. Meaning, they should do straight-to-pencils colors. His best art is in that form anyway.