Archer & Armstrong #20 Discussion

[Keith]

A rollicking good start to a new arc! Every celebrity death you thought you knew is wrong. Archer defeated by... Jim Morrison?

Read if you dare... but don't by The Lizard King, man!

[BugsySig]

Awesome issue. So much going on here. Loved Biggie and 2Pac as the orderlies, btw.

So if Mary Maria stole the Wheel using time arcs, and the Wheel is hidden in the Hotel, and Archer's mother is in the Hotel...Greg may be right and Mary-Maria is Archer's mother. There was even the line about Aram and Archer being like father and son...

[hkupo]

When Perez starting drawing A&A and also in Harbinger Wars after Henry I didn't really like his work. But ever since the 0 issue I have to say I'm really digging it. There's been a slight change in the style and whatever it is I think it's working.

[Keith]

Loved Perez and FVL showing up in the background Retrologist ads!

[jmatt]

What a great issue! This title is so much fun. And yeah, I caught the Perez and FVL pics too. And I'm a huge Doors fan, I think was most of what I listened too in 1978 (Zep and Hendrix, too). I should have had The End playing in the background.

Let's run through some references and sightings: Marilyn, Elvis, Cobain, Dean(?), BIG, Morrison on page 1.

Anybody catch The Family Guy cast? I like the guy doing the Luge Team pose next to X-O. I think Room 237 is a Shining reference. Don't recognize the guy with the hollow head. Cobain again?

Last page, Andre the Giant, Lynyrd Skynyrd (Van Zant) on the left?, Freddy Mercury, Jimi, Michael Jackson, Buddy Holly, Amy Winehouse, John Lennon, Janice Joplin, Richie Valens. Who's the guy on the floor with the blonde hair? Randy Rhoads? Far left, Sid Vicious? No idea about the embracing couple, one in yellow. Bruce Lee and Brandon?

[JonesyAZ]

I think the blonde guy on the floor is the late Slayer guitarist Jeff Hanneman

[bygranddesign]

Fantastic issue

Perez - great as always. Love how clean his art is and at the same time expressive. Love all the detail put forth in those splash pages. Great job drawing all the different rock stars and celebrities. Really top notch artist. Hopefully VEI finds him a book to do after A&A ends..

David Baron colors were brilliant as always. Very different from his work on Shadowman.

And finally FVL with his trademark fun, humorous, smart storytelling rich with history and imagination and pop culture.

[bygranddesign]

Awesome issue. So much going on here. Loved Biggie and 2Pac as the orderlies, btw.

So if Mary Maria stole the Wheel using time arcs, and the Wheel is hidden in the Hotel, and Archer's mother is in the Hotel...Greg may be right and Mary-Maria is Archer's mother. There was even the line about Aram and Archer being like father and son...

I perked up when Armstrong said that - it felt more like a wink and a shout out to the speculators when I read it at the time .. But maybe it is foreshadowing..

I'm definitely expecting Mary-Maria to be in the hotel. When we get to the end - there will be some closure between all three of them I believe.

Not sure how everything will go down - but I'm really enjoying the ride.

[jmatt]

I think the blonde guy on the floor is the late Slayer guitarist Jeff Hanneman

Pentagram and "hell" fingers? It's gotta be Rhoades, imo. Wanna make it interesting?

And the more I look at the hugging figures, it's definitely Bruce Lee and son Brandon in his "Crow" outfit.

[Jace]

The Eagles are one of my all time favorite bands so I am hoping for more references to them than just the Hotel itself. A fun start to the last A&A arc, can't wait for next issue. So true of most valiant books, as soon as I get done I want MORE!!!!

[greg]

Awesome issue. So much going on here. Loved Biggie and 2Pac as the orderlies, btw.

So if Mary Maria stole the Wheel using time arcs, and the Wheel is hidden in the Hotel, and Archer's mother is in the Hotel...Greg may be right and Mary-Maria is Archer's mother. There was even the line about Aram and Archer being like father and son...

I perked up when Armstrong said that - it felt more like a wink and a shout out to the speculators when I read it at the time .. But maybe it is foreshadowing..

I'm definitely expecting Mary-Maria to be in the hotel. When we get to the end - there will be some closure between all three of them I believe.

Not sure how everything will go down - but I'm really enjoying the ride.

Just to add to the theory...

The first thing that would be natural for most children to remember would be something about their mother or father.

What did Archer say was the first thing he could remember?

[BugsySig]

Awesome issue. So much going on here. Loved Biggie and 2Pac as the orderlies, btw.

So if Mary Maria stole the Wheel using time arcs, and the Wheel is hidden in the Hotel, and Archer's mother is in the Hotel...Greg may be right and Mary-Maria is Archer's mother. There was even the line about Aram and Archer being like father and son...

I perked up when Armstrong said that - it felt more like a wink and a shout out to the speculators when I read it at the time .. But maybe it is foreshadowing..

I'm definitely expecting Mary-Maria to be in the hotel. When we get to the end - there will be some closure between all three of them I believe.

Not sure how everything will go down - but I'm really enjoying the ride.

Just to add to the theory...

The first thing that would be natural for most children to remember would be something about their mother or father.

What did Archer say was the first thing he could remember?

Yeah yeah yeah...I already said you might be right. You don't have to rub it in our faces

[greg]

Awesome issue. So much going on here. Loved Biggie and 2Pac as the orderlies, btw.

So if Mary Maria stole the Wheel using time arcs, and the Wheel is hidden in the Hotel, and Archer's mother is in the Hotel...Greg may be right and Mary-Maria is Archer's mother. There was even the line about Aram and Archer being like father and son...

I perked up when Armstrong said that - it felt more like a wink and a shout out to the speculators when I read it at the time .. But maybe it is foreshadowing..

I'm definitely expecting Mary-Maria to be in the hotel. When we get to the end - there will be some closure between all three of them I believe.

Not sure how everything will go down - but I'm really enjoying the ride.

Just to add to the theory...

The first thing that would be natural for most children to remember would be something about their mother or father.

What did Archer say was the first thing he could remember?

Yeah yeah yeah...I already said you might be right. You don't have to rub it in our faces

I'm still not 100% sure... but A&A #20 did add a few more hints.

[Keith]

What a great issue! This title is so much fun. And yeah, I caught the Perez and FVL pics too. And I'm a huge Doors fan, I think was most of what I listened too in 1978 (Zep and Hendrix, too). I should have had The End playing in the background.

Let's run through some references and sightings: Marilyn, Elvis, Cobain, Dean(?), BIG, Morrison on page 1.

Anybody catch The Family Guy cast? I like the guy doing the Luge Team pose next to X-O. I think Room 237 is a Shining reference. Don't recognize the guy with the hollow head. Cobain again?

Last page, Andre the Giant, Lynyrd Skynyrd (Van Zant) on the left?, Freddy Mercury, Jimi, Michael Jackson, Buddy Holly, Amy Winehouse, John Lennon, Janice Joplin, Richie Valens. Who's the guy on the floor with the blonde hair? Randy Rhoads? Far left, Sid Vicious? No idea about the embracing couple, one in yellow. Bruce Lee and Brandon?

Think we have Will Smith and his son... lower left corner of the panel where A&A first enter the Fametorium.

[greg]

Here's another hint they put in A&A #20...

Archer got very angry when Morrison asked if Mary-Maria "aroused" him.

The implication is that Archer didn't/hasn't/wouldn't think of Mary-Maria that way, due to his upbringing... and never would have acted on any attraction at any point in the past.

In other words...

There is no Luke and Leia kiss awkwardness in their history when the truth is finally revealed.

[ilzuccone]

Here's another hint they put in A&A #20...

Archer got very angry when Morrison asked if Mary-Maria "aroused" him.

The implication is that Archer didn't/hasn't/wouldn't think of Mary-Maria that way, due to his upbringing... and never would have acted on any attraction at any point in the past.

In other words...

There is no Luke and Leia kiss awkwardness in their history when the truth is finally revealed.

after reading this thread my head went to luke and leia. lol i bet they have them kiss b4 the reveal.

This book was perfect art writing color everything. perfect example of what the VEI creatives are capable of doing when there aren't any pesky crossovers to cram in.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

Here's another hint they put in A&A #20...

Archer got very angry when Morrison asked if Mary-Maria "aroused" him.

The implication is that Archer didn't/hasn't/wouldn't think of Mary-Maria that way, due to his upbringing... and never would have acted on any attraction at any point in the past.

In other words...

There is no Luke and Leia kiss awkwardness in their history when the truth is finally revealed.

after reading this thread my head went to luke and leia. lol i bet they have them kiss b4 the reveal.

This book was perfect art writing color everything. perfect example of what the VEI creatives are capable of doing when there aren't any pesky crossovers to cram in.

Talk about an Oedipus complex.
Love this issue. This title can do no wrong for me. Love that they used Elvis' middle name when referring to him. BTW, what did the orderlies mean that NONE of them will get out of there?
And yes, to whoever asked, the hollow head man was Kurt Cobain again. But now I gotta go back and see Bruce and Jason Lee! Missed that one. Pretty cool that Jim Morrison is a super villain!

[greg]

I gotta go back and see Bruce and Jason Lee! Missed that one.

Bruce is in his yellow racing suit.

[BugsySig]

The more I go back and think about this issue, it's one of the best VEI has produced thus far.

If FVL really is leaving after The Delinquents, I will be extremely upset. This entire run has been a masterpiece.

[Keith]

The more I go back and think about this issue, it's one of the best VEI has produced thus far.

If FVL really is leaving after The Delinquents, I will be extremely upset. This entire run has been a masterpiece.

Agreed. The mind still boggles that anyone would deliberately not read this series.

But look at it this way... FVL may be leaving A&A, but we'll be getting more of him on something else. A FVL written Timewalker or Geomancer series sounds great to me.

[bygranddesign]

FVL with his love of history and conspiracies would be perfect on a Timewalker series. Plus he is already super familiar with the character and has written several fantastic issues already involving Ivar. And less of chance of continuity screw ups if he is the one that writes the series.

[jmatt]

The art and color are outstanding. I really like Perez.

Not sure why the cover has Morrison dressed like a Navy Admiral. You would think more like a (lizard) king.

I like that evidence is mounting about Aram being Archer's father. But it's a little split: Aram calls him "junior" but then says "me being the son" which I guess he meant in a humorous fashion.

[jmatt]

Think we have Will Smith and his son... lower left corner of the panel where A&A first enter the Fametorium.

I think you're right. Nice catch.

[Phoenix8008]

Think we have Will Smith and his son... lower left corner of the panel where A&A first enter the Fametorium.

I think you're right. Nice catch.

Isn't everybody that's in there supposed to be 'dead'? Will Smith and son aren't dead last I heard.

[jmatt]

Think we have Will Smith and his son... lower left corner of the panel where A&A first enter the Fametorium.

I think you're right. Nice catch.

Isn't everybody that's in there supposed to be 'dead'? Will Smith and son aren't dead last I heard.

They're just wandering around in the atrium, not in the place-that-is-not-Faraway, wherever that is.

Mary-Maria will be found there. And Archer brought his Dad along for the ride. There is no better way to end the arc and go to hiatus.