How to snipe... and sleep well at night.

greg · Post by **greg** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:30 pm

I have been on Ebay since 1997. It doesn't take long to understand that
you will get the "best price" as a buyer if you are able to place your bid
at the end of the auction, rather than at the beginning.

Since "the end" of the auction is literally the last seconds of the auction,
buyers looking to get the best deal have been forced to sit and wait like
tigers ready to pounce on the unsuspecting victim...
which, understandably, "feels uncomfortable" for a lot of people.
Especially when the previous high bidder is someone that you know...

Even when you've been watching the auction all week, it seems like
you jumped in at the "last second" when you finally make that snipe bid.

I have never taken it personally when someone has sniped me,
because I understand that if I don't bid high enough, I might lose...
whether I lose two days, two hours, or two seconds before the end,
it doesn't matter. The simple fact is, I didn't bid high enough.

But, I can also understand when some people are a little upset after
thinking that they would win an auction for days only to see it disappear
in the last seconds.

WELCOME SNIPING SERVICES
Services like www.ESnipe.com allow you to set
your "snipe bid" DAYS IN ADVANCE, and then forget about it.
You don't pay them anything if you don't win... which I know I don't win
over 90% of the auctions I have ever bid on.

So, now I set my "snipe bid" on Day One of the auction...
As soon as I see the item, I set up the "snipe" for it.
Usually, no one has even bid yet, so I don't even know who the bidders
will be... and I have no idea who I might outbid in the last seconds.
Suddenly, all the "uncomfortable parts" of sniping are gone!

If anyone still thinks that sniping is mean, or inconsiderate,
then they probably should spend more time on Ebay.
(I'm not directing my comments at anyone in particular, just basing
my comments on the recent increase in sniping, and my experiences.)

When I "set the snipe" days in advance... I sleep a little better knowing
that I don't have to see who I'm "sniping"...
I don't have to wait by the clock and pounce...
Suddenly, all is fair in love and Ebay.

sonicdan · Post by **sonicdan** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:47 pm

Greg,
I'd have to agree this seem to be the best way to
bid on ebay items. Several months ago I started following
this approach. It seems I'd always forget to be at the
computer when a certain auction was ending. Now I just
put in my snipe and forget about it. If I win great, if not
no worries as I already reached my limit.
Also, there were times when I would not bid on an auction
because someone I knew was high bidder. Out of
respect for them I wouldn't bid, but then they'd sometimes
get outbid in the last seconds before I could decide to go ahead and
for it.
DAN

kryptonitecomics · Post by **kryptonitecomics** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:02 pm

Greg,

Didn't you jump my bid on an item last week??? Man you've got some nerve buddy...I tell you if I knew the admin of the site I would have you thrown off in a heartbeat!!!!!

By the way I snipe the old fashion way, not program for me to mess up my cheap thrills

kryptonitecomics · Post by **kryptonitecomics** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:53 pm

Knightt_333 wrote:Well seeing as how Greg outbid me months ago and it led me to check out this guy Valiantcomics.com and to find he has a website... I will forgive him. Normally I would track you down and blow up your car. BUT, I am willing the make an exception.

LMAO

qrnd · Post by **qrnd** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:47 pm

So does anyone have a problem giving out your eBay password to these snipe serivces? Thats the only thing holding me back from snipedom.

riptide_soccer · Post by **riptide_soccer** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:34 pm

I used Esnipe on the recent EW #27 VVSS auction that ended today...and won!!! I'm sold on it!!!

Ax · Post by Ax » Thu Apr 01, 2004 8:01 am

I think I am too paranoid to use these services. One more thing to go wrong I guess.

myron · Post by **myron** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 8:11 am

I guess I don't get the use of the snipe services. If you put your (real) max bid in for the auction and it's the highest, you will win...if someone snipes at the end higher than what you put for your max...so be it. If you were willing to go higher then you should have... just my 2 cents...

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:05 am

myron wrote:If you put your (real) max bid in for the auction and it's the highest, you will win

Unfortunately there's a self-contradiction there. If I expose my max bid it will probably not be the highest bid. So I will not win. I can say for sure I have missed several items because I did not snipe (one that it really hurts to have missed). Others still I did win but I paid more than I should. Your rule would be true if all followed it, but sadly it is extremely common for people to bid against other bids, instead of according to your rule.

I wish you were right, I really do. Sniping is frustrating and destroys any chance of planning what to bid on when you're on limited budget. I really wish it would go away, but the sad truth is that it is a necessity. Only draw-back is that it gives a chance for some people to persuade sellers to end their auctions early, but that is rare and against the rules.

/Magnus

myron · Post by **myron** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:10 am

magnusr wrote:
myron wrote:If you put your (real) max bid in for the auction and it's the highest, you will win
Unfortunately there's a self-contradiction there. If I expose my max bid it will probably not be the highest bid. So I will not win. I can say for sure I have missed several items because I did not snipe (one that it really hurts to have missed). Others still I did win but I paid more than I should. Your rule would be true if all followed it, but sadly it is extremely common for people to bid against other bids, instead of according to your rule.

I wish you were right, I really do. Sniping is frustrating and destroys any chance of planning what to bid on when you're on limited budget. I really wish it would go away, but the sad truth is that it is a necessity. Only draw-back is that it gives a chance for some people to persuade sellers to end their auctions early, but that is rare and against the rules.

/Magnus

but the bidding is proxy...your max bid is only exposed if someone bids higher, else it is unknown...I fail to see the contradiction

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:26 am

Knightt_333 wrote:All of these programs... you do have to pay something to use it right ? Do you have to pay seperately or does it come out of the auction funds automatically ?

You pay a company like ESnipe.com when you have used their service
to WIN an auction. If your high bid doesn't win, you don't pay them anything.

You don't pay ESnipe.com for the auction. They place the bid on your behalf,
and you are still responsible to the Ebay seller for the auction.
ESnipe.com "sits by the computer and bids for you at the last second",
so that you don't have to.
Their fees are:
http://www.esnipe.com/Fees/

I'm still in the 14-day introductory window, so I haven't paid anything yet.

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:21 am

myron wrote:but the bidding is proxy...your max bid is only exposed if someone bids higher, else it is unknown...I fail to see the contradiction

Actually you're wrong (because the bid is also exposed if you are underbid by less than the bid increment), but that's besides the point.

The point is that when I loose, it is not because I bid too little, but because I bid too early. You say that if my max is higher than everyone else's maximums I will win. But just because I do bid, I have changed what the maximum of some of the others is.

The contradiction (maybe not the best word) is that I can very well be outbid ONLY because I bid. It is quite common that my maximum is far higher than what anyone has set as their maximium. But if I bid more than 10 seconds before the end of the auction, then it will no longer be higher than all other maximums.

By putting my real max in early, even though it is the highest at that moment, that action itself can change things, so that my max is no longer the highest. Therefore your statement is self-contradicting.

I think I will not be able to explain this better. Anyone with better pedagogical skills are welcome to try, but I think the best is if you simply look up a few finished random ebay auctions and study how multiple bids in small increments are used.

Best,

Magnus

PS, if eBay only allowed each user to bid once in each auction (which will never happen), then of course you would be perfectly right (and I wish you were).

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:00 am

I think the difference between bidding early and bidding late is...
Everyone else gets no chance to "rethink" their maximums
when you place your bid early.

That's the point Magnusr is making...

Scenario A:
Magnus bids $50 EARLY for a book.
He immediately becomes "high bidder" at $25.
Throughout the week it inches to $35. Then $40... Then $45...
Bidders understand that someone WANTS the book...
Then when Magnus is no longer the high bidder at $51,
whoever is the new high bidder KNOWS that someone else
was willing to pay at least $50... so the new high bidder feels "ok"
about bidding more than $50 in order to win the auction,
and they've had a few days to think and re-think their strategy.

Scenario B:
Magnus bids $50 LATE (sets a snipe) for a book.
The auction may or may not progress as high as $50 throughout the week,
since Magnus (and possibly others) are withholding their early bids.
If the bids remain low, or even none at all, then no one knows that
they should feel "ok" about bidding $50. No one has "helped them" make
that decision. Potentially Magnus can win the book for less because
he was the only one who knew how much he personally wanted the book.
There's no time for others to reconsider based on "new information"
when Magnus waits until the end.

myron · Post by **myron** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:07 am

magnusr and Greg..thanks for the explanations...they do clarify things...i think magnusr's last statement is the clincher for me though...

if eBay only allowed each user to bid once in each auction...<snip>

that's where my thought process got messed up

thanks

soundoftheuniverse · Post by **soundoftheuniverse** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:44 am

It seems like without fail, when I place a bid on a book it gets beaten, more bids = more attention. And I started losing. Of course I couldn't really offer much competition to Gordon so I had to wait and hope his thirst would be quinched before every high grade Valiant in existance was in his possession. I swear that guy was like a BLACK HOLE of Valiants cavalcading into his PO Box and those were just my books, I know you guys sold him tons too!

Anyway, chatting with Greg I learned about Esnipe and really, the way I see it, why would they risk the $hit$torm that would come their way for messing with people's ebay accounts.

It was instantly obvious to me how they make their money, which I'm sure they're making tremendous amounts of. By the way, is Esnipe a publically traded company? There's one for ya Boda, Esnipe's gonna be around for along time and they're not out to get you. They just want you to buy a bunch of bid points and that's it. You pay them bidpoint and they reward you with the best deals you've ever gotten. Period.

Seriously guy's, we live in a country where the Patriot Act is IN EFFECT. Esnipe is the least of your worries. There's absolutely nothing to be paranoid about. Esnipe is 100% legit and SUPER EASY to navigate.

Once your account is set up you can simply right click on any ebay auction and choose the "Snipe it" tab from there you can instantly place your bid.

If you're serious about getting an item for a price range that's in your comfort zone then Esnipe is the only way to go.

riftt · Post by **riftt** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:11 pm

From The Economist, January 1st-7th 2005

"There is only one traffic law in Ramadi these days: when Americans approach, Iraqis scatter. Horns blaring, brakes screaming, the midday traffic skids to the side of the road as a line of Humvee jeeps ferrying American marines rolls the wrong way up the main street. Every vehicle, that is, except one beat-up old taxi. Its elderly driver, flapping his outstretched hands, seems, amazingly, to be trying to turn the convoy back. Gun turrets swivel and lock on to him, as a hefty marine sargeant leaps into the road, levels an assault rifle at his turbanned head, and screams: 'Back this *SQUEE* up, *SQUEE*!'

"The old man should have read the bilingual notices that American soldiers tack to their rear bumpers in Iraq: 'Keep 50m or deadly force will be applied.' In Ramadi, the capital of central Anbar province, where 17 suicide-bombs struck American forces during the month-long Muslim fast of Ramadan in the autumn, the marines are jumpy. Sometimes, they say, they fire on vehicles encroaching with 30 metres, sometimes they fire at 20 metres: 'If anyone gets too close to us we *SQUEE* waste them,' says a bullish lieutenant. 'It's kind of a shame, because it means we've killed a lot of innocent people.'"

Kind of a shame, killing the people you're trying to democratize, but after awhile, says the same lieutenant, "It gets to the point where you can't wait to see guys with guns, so you start shooting everybody..."

With characteristic dry English understatement, The Economist's embedded reporter (Economist pieces are unbylined) notes, "[W]hen America's well-drilled and well-fed fighters attempt subtler tasks than killing people, problems arise." Their contempt for Iraqis is undisguised and dramatically expressed: a soldier, confronted by "jeering schoolchildren," fires canisters of buckshot from his grenade-launcher at them, and marines busting down doors in Ramadi scream at trembling middle-aged women: "*SQUEE*, where's the guns?" Small wonder, ventures the correspondent, that "many Iraqis are probably more scared of American troops than of insurgents."

The last grafs of the report recount a big whoopy-do operation in the smugglers' haven of Baij involving a convoy of 1000 troops supported by Apache attack helicopters targeting three houses that had been linked to Zarquawi's terrorist band, according to a local informant.

There was no one in the houses except women and children. Rather than return to base empty, they pay homage to the last reel of Casablanca and round up the usual suspects.

"...they detained 70 men from districts indentified by their informant as 'bad.' In near-freezing conditions, they sat hooded and bound in their pyjamas. They shivered uncontrollably. One wetted himself in fear. Most had been detained at random; several had been held because they had a Kalashnikov rifle, which is legal. The evidence against one man was some anti-American literature, a meat cleaver, and a tin whistle. American intelligence officers moved through the ranks of detainees, raising their hoods to take mugshots: 'One, two, three, jihaaad!' A middle-tier officer commented on the mission: 'When we do this,' he said. 'We lose.'"

riftt · Post by **riftt** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:15 pm

Knightt_333 wrote:blah blah schools n stuff blah blah

keep drinking the kool aid buddy.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:32 pm

Knightt_333 wrote:Hmmm must be something about LA today...

Stop, you're being oversensitive. I have been, and remain, on your side. Don't shoot your friends along with your enemies.

YOU, however, are in a bad mood. So I suggest taking five steps AWAY from the keyboard, downing a coupla percoset, then having a nice boom boom session. Come back when you're feeling happy n' chipper.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:33 pm

Back on topic...what TRULY amazes me is the INCREDIBLE amount of sniping going on....you can see closed auctions now with 5, 10, 20 bids....all in the last 10 seconds! And that's just the bids that went OFF (because of eBay's increment system)...that doesn't count all the bids ENTERED but never placed!

prismra · Post by **prismra** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:33 pm

No matter what side of the fence you're on, it's a mess over there. Radical Islam is the cause of all this anti-american sentiment and will be the downfall of any regime in Iraq. They have no concept of Separation of Church and State and in their desire for an Islamic govenment, will destroy any chance at true freedom and democracy. Iraq was a threat, immediate or not, but then again, so is every other anti-american country out there. So what's the solution? I would start by cutting off the blood-thristy Isralies until they vow for a compromise with the Palestinians.

BodaZoffa · Post by **BodaZoffa** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:56 pm

Joined eSnipe today..... let's see what happens. Magnus #5 cover hmmmmmm.....

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:33 am

Paying per snipe is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. AutionSentry is a one time fee of $15 and lets you snipe all you want for free. Despite other memebers "troubles" with the product I have found it an invaulable tool and quite reliable.

Now let's see how many people slam me for this post!

soundoftheuniverse · Post by **soundoftheuniverse** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:15 am

Whatever works for you. I personally don't have any problem "tipping" esnipe 1% for winning me something I want. Different strokes for different folks.

Valiant OCD · Post by **Valiant OCD** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:24 pm

I was wondering ? what happens when most or all bidders are using a snipe service? 20 bids put in in the last 5 seconds........ Doesn't it still come down to the biggest bid? At that point isn't it the same thing as a regular auction Just a lot mre boring? :littlesmile:

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:32 pm

It turns it into a silent auction, with a small twist - the minimum bid increment comes into play. In this case, earlier bids get preference, even if lower, when the bids are too close.

It's just broken wherever you look.

Valiant OCD wrote:I was wondering ? what happens when most or all bidders are using a snipe service? 20 bids put in in the last 5 seconds........ Doesn't it still come down to the biggest bid? At that point isn't it the same thing as a regular auction Just a lot mre boring? :littlesmile: