Fred Van Lente and AJ Ampadu are co-writing Resurgence of the Valiant Universe, Ask Them Anything!

[Ryan]

My problem, Ryan, was that when I said that Alien and DMG are not the same company and that fool I blocked called me insane for saying it you doubled down on the claim by erroneously conflating Hawkins being an editor at both as proof that there is no distinction between the two companies.

Now, since then you've backtracked on that position, which is good, but we keep going back to that belief because you won't relent in it.

Ownership should have NEVER been part of the discussion. The two companies are distinct from one another.

The only reason the comics have the same style and tone is because, for reasons we ignore, Alien retained Hawkins as editor.

Maybe her hiring was a condition of the licensing.

Maybe she wowed them with her pitch/vision.

Maybe they just didn't think it fair to fire her because responsibility for publishing the comics switched from DMG to Alien.

In some ways, the Alien deal might be comparable to when Event Comics took over the Daredevil, Punisher, and other Marvel comics for the Marvel Knights line, or when Extreme and Wildstorm Studios did Heroes Reborn. Who knows.

Yeah I'm not really interested in the ownership aspect, I just pointed out the EiC thing after I'd read a few to help explain to myself why they weren't as different in quality as I had hoped they would be.

I shouldn't have brought it up, I'm only interested in the comics themselves. But since comic book 'eras' are usually classified by who the EiC is, I thought it noteworthy that post-Antos DMG and Alien will have the same head editor. Take from that whatever you want.

[ManofTheAtom]

My problem, Ryan, was that when I said that Alien and DMG are not the same company and that fool I blocked called me insane for saying it you doubled down on the claim by erroneously conflating Hawkins being an editor at both as proof that there is no distinction between the two companies.

Now, since then you've backtracked on that position, which is good, but we keep going back to that belief because you won't relent in it.

Ownership should have NEVER been part of the discussion. The two companies are distinct from one another.

The only reason the comics have the same style and tone is because, for reasons we ignore, Alien retained Hawkins as editor.

Maybe her hiring was a condition of the licensing.

Maybe she wowed them with her pitch/vision.

Maybe they just didn't think it fair to fire her because responsibility for publishing the comics switched from DMG to Alien.

In some ways, the Alien deal might be comparable to when Event Comics took over the Daredevil, Punisher, and other Marvel comics for the Marvel Knights line, or when Extreme and Wildstorm Studios did Heroes Reborn. Who knows.

Yeah I'm not really interested in the ownership aspect, I just pointed out the EiC thing after I'd read a few to help explain to myself why they weren't as different in quality as I had hoped they would be.

I shouldn't have brought it up, I'm only interested in the comics themselves. But since comic book 'eras' are usually classified by who the EiC is, I thought it noteworthy that post-Antos DMG and Alien will have the same head editor. Take from that whatever you want.

It just means that continuity, style, and tone continued from one publisher to the other. In some ways that sort of consistency is good, in others -- such as it not being the kind of continuity, style, and tone everyone likes -- it's bad.

[TheFerg714]

I shouldn't have brought it up, I'm only interested in the comics themselves. But since comic book 'eras' are usually classified by who the EiC is, I thought it noteworthy that post-Antos DMG and Alien will have the same head editor. Take from that whatever you want.

Antos was only (one of) the "Senior Editorial Director" for about a year. There were several other people in charge (whether it was EiC or a different wacky title) during the DMG era, but fans still tend to see 2018-2023 as the DMG era, because it's not like each EiC brought a whole new style or tone or overall decision-making to the line.

[daniellew61]

I shouldn't have brought it up, I'm only interested in the comics themselves. But since comic book 'eras' are usually classified by who the EiC is, I thought it noteworthy that post-Antos DMG and Alien will have the same head editor. Take from that whatever you want.

Antos was only (one of) the "Senior Editorial Director" for about a year. There were several other people in charge (whether it was EiC or a different wacky title) during the DMG era, but fans still tend to see 2018-2023 as the DMG era, because it's not like each EiC brought a whole new style or tone or overall decision-making to the line.

Fred Pierce was in full charge after Dinesh left. That's it. That was the boss.

Editors pitched books, but no single editor had FULL control over the publishing line, talent, etc - Everything had to be approved by Fred, even before it went higher up.

[Ryan]

It just means that continuity, style, and tone continued from one publisher to the other. In some ways that sort of consistency is good, in others -- such as it not being the kind of continuity, style, and tone everyone likes -- it's bad.

That's literally all I was trying to say, that there were certain things that I felt carried over from my own reading experience, probably more tone than style.

I might have said it in a clumsy way that made people think I meant the 'businesses' were the same, but I tend to think of chatting on the comics message board the same as fellow comic readers chatting at a comic shop. Casual language can sometimes be sloppy and imprecise.

[Ryan]

Fred Pierce was in full charge after Dinesh left. That's it. That was the boss.

Editors pitched books, but no single editor had FULL control over the publishing line, talent, etc - Everything had to be approved by Fred, even before it went higher up. Both Lysa and Heather did the best they could, within their limitations.

That's interesting. Comic fans usually give credit/blame to the Senior Editors/Editors in Chief because we don't usually have access to a corporate chart or anything describing the chain of command. All we have are the comics and what's printed in them, including the names in the credit boxes.

[ManofTheAtom]

It just means that continuity, style, and tone continued from one publisher to the other. In some ways that sort of consistency is good, in others -- such as it not being the kind of continuity, style, and tone everyone likes -- it's bad.

That's literally all I was trying to say, that there were certain things that I felt carried over from my own reading experience, probably more tone than style.

I might have said it in a clumsy way that made people think I meant the 'businesses' were the same, but I tend to think of chatting on the comics message board the same as fellow comic readers chatting at a comic shop. Casual language can sometimes be sloppy and imprecise.

It's cool.

[daniellew61]

Fred Pierce was in full charge after Dinesh left. That's it. That was the boss.

Editors pitched books, but no single editor had FULL control over the publishing line, talent, etc - Everything had to be approved by Fred, even before it went higher up. Both Lysa and Heather did the best they could, within their limitations.

That's interesting. Comic fans usually give credit/blame to the Senior Editors/Editors in Chief because we don't usually have access to a corporate chart or anything describing the chain of command. All we have are the comics and what's printed in them, including the names in the credit boxes.

I don’t want to sound disrespectful or discredit anyone’s hard work in earning a title promotion, but in this industry, job titles often don’t reflect the actual responsibilities as much as people might think. It’s strange and can be frustrating, but that’s the reality.

Take, for example, Antos and Hawkins—despite the revolving door of the other male editors during their tenure who kept coming or going, you are kinda blaming them for all the problems. They genuinely cared about delivering great content that fans would love, even when people would be BANGING the drum going BUT WILL IT SELL? WILL IT SELL?

Even though they were Senior Editors, it didn’t mean they were in charge of every release during their time. It's not my place to really tell all on their experience - but if you wanna "blame" somebody for what wasn't working and who was the reason for it, blaming them is way off base

[Ryan]

I don’t want to sound disrespectful or discredit anyone’s hard work in earning a title promotion, but in this industry, job titles often don’t reflect the actual responsibilities as much as people might think. It’s strange and can be frustrating, but that’s the reality.

Take, for example, Antos and Hawkins—despite the revolving door of the other male editors during their tenure who kept coming or going, you are kinda blaming them for all the problems. They genuinely cared about delivering great content that fans would love, even when people would be BANGING the drum going BUT WILL IT SELL? WILL IT SELL?

Even though they were Senior Editors, it didn’t mean they were in charge of every release during their time. It's not my place to really tell all on their experience - but if you wanna "blame" somebody for what wasn't working and who was the reason for it, blaming them is way off base

That's understandable. But we're literally just comic book readers, all we know is what's in the credit box. Just like when people watch a movie, if they don't like it they might look at who the director is and say 'I won't watch any more of (this director's) movies', even if the producers or someone else actually had more to do with the final product than the director.

I've personally never 'blamed Antos and Hawkins' or anyone else for 'all the problems'. I've only ever read some of the comics and given my opinion about the comics as a reader.

From my perspective, it felt like the 'DMG' Valiant comics were always super focused on trying to bring in new and younger readers instead of trying to figure out what the current, older Valiant fans wanted to read. That's fair enough, and understandable from a business perspective. But as an older reader who's been a fan since 1991, I didn't enjoy reading the ones that I read.

It's not about assigning personal 'blame' and its not personal at all, we don't know these people. It's just fan talk. 'I like the comics when Shooter was EiC, I don't like the ones when Nicieza was EiC'. That's what people have talked about on here for decades.

[The Harbinger]

I don’t want to sound disrespectful or discredit anyone’s hard work in earning a title promotion, but in this industry, job titles often don’t reflect the actual responsibilities as much as people might think. It’s strange and can be frustrating, but that’s the reality.

Take, for example, Antos and Hawkins—despite the revolving door of the other male editors during their tenure who kept coming or going, you are kinda blaming them for all the problems. They genuinely cared about delivering great content that fans would love, even when people would be BANGING the drum going BUT WILL IT SELL? WILL IT SELL?

Even though they were Senior Editors, it didn’t mean they were in charge of every release during their time. It's not my place to really tell all on their experience - but if you wanna "blame" somebody for what wasn't working and who was the reason for it, blaming them is way off base

It must be a comics industry thing, because the job titles not meaning your actual responsibility is insane to me. Editors should be editing, managers manage, writers should write, publishers publish, and inkers should ink. So convoluted in one of the most straightforward industries as far as producing tangibles is concerned. This bit of everyone doing something different might be why some parts of the western industry are in such a tailspin.

I'm not exactly an Antos supporter obviously, but this makes me recall the previous discussion on her (with Pierce also carrying blame):
viewtopic.php?t=54403&start=100

It wasn't your place to confirm or deny Antos/Hawkins "manage editorial department" and "overseeing relationships with creators" like the Valiant press release literally says their job duties were. I'm gleaning they didn't even do that, and can be corrected there. Could we get something impactful that Hawkins or Antos did do in their Valiant roles while you were there?

[daniellew61]

They did all that, but there was still a boss above them who could say yes or no, or give orders. Works that way in most places, depending on who is the manager. Some places give more freedom - most don't I don't know how much clearer you need it. I don't have an autopsy report with every single day-by-day detail of what happened. Even if I did, not everything made sense to me either. It was a lot of people coming and going over and over.. You all know this.

[daniellew61]

Could we get something impactful that Hawkins or Antos did do in their Valiant roles while you were there?

impactful? WIt’s Valiant, a brand that’s had its share of highs and lows over the years, and people have always had mixed feelings about it no matter what. What’s considered impactful varies from fan to fan—it’s really a matter of personal interest with each person. Since they were my coworkers, I might be a bit biased in my opinion one way or the other. Either way, it struggled and at least has legs now.

There is something lovely about the fact there is always a person or two behind the scenes, trying to keep it from dying completely off and keeping comics on shelves... that is what made me appreciate it.

[daniellew61]

From my perspective, it felt like the 'DMG' Valiant comics were always super focused on trying to bring in new and younger readers instead of trying to figure out what the current, older Valiant fans wanted to read. That's fair enough, and understandable from a business perspective. But as an older reader who's been a fan since 1991, I didn't enjoy reading the ones that I read.

Edited for clarification
This is a common approach across the industry in the past (so I hear) leaders push their teams to attract new readers to boost profits, but they often base their strategies on outdated statistics and current or older readers instead of the new audience they’re trying to reach. They end up creating a new tone, aiming it at existing fans, and then wonder why it didn’t resonate with the new audience.

Personally, I loved when Valiant stayed true to itself. I was thrilled to see X-O Unconquered bring in older creators for some covers—it seemed like a no-brainer. But it was often rejected because decided those creators were 'too old,' or whatever the rumor was.

[Ryan]

From my perspective, it felt like the 'DMG' Valiant comics were always super focused on trying to bring in new and younger readers instead of trying to figure out what the current, older Valiant fans wanted to read. That's fair enough, and understandable from a business perspective. But as an older reader who's been a fan since 1991, I didn't enjoy reading the ones that I read.

This is a common approach across the industry—leaders push their teams to attract new readers to boost profits, but they often base their strategies on outdated statistics and current or older readers instead of the new audience they’re trying to reach. They end up creating a new tone, aiming it at existing fans, and then wonder why it didn’t resonate with the new audience.

Personally, I loved when Valiant stayed true to itself. I was thrilled to see X-O Unconquered bring in older creators for some covers—it seemed like a no-brainer. But it was often rejected because whoever was boss decided those creators were 'too old,' assuming new Valiant fans wouldn’t appreciate the same things as old Valiant fans.

Cool. Ideally it would be great if there was a way to appeal to both, but I guess that's easier said than done.

[daniellew61]

From my perspective, it felt like the 'DMG' Valiant comics were always super focused on trying to bring in new and younger readers instead of trying to figure out what the current, older Valiant fans wanted to read. That's fair enough, and understandable from a business perspective. But as an older reader who's been a fan since 1991, I didn't enjoy reading the ones that I read.

This is a common approach across the industry—leaders push their teams to attract new readers to boost profits, but they often base their strategies on outdated statistics and current or older readers instead of the new audience they’re trying to reach. They end up creating a new tone, aiming it at existing fans, and then wonder why it didn’t resonate with the new audience.

Personally, I loved when Valiant stayed true to itself. I was thrilled to see X-O Unconquered bring in older creators for some covers—it seemed like a no-brainer. But it was often rejected because whoever was boss decided those creators were 'too old,' assuming new Valiant fans wouldn’t appreciate the same things as old Valiant fans.

Cool. Ideally it would be great if there was a way to appeal to both, but I guess that's easier said than done.

I thought maybe if we just had a 90s verse and then the other stuff co-currently, kinda was getting that a bit with Kevin VanHook on another Bloodshot! At one point I think it was an idea for the preorder ones that have extra content to just have the OG back up story in those issues...

[Ryan]

Cool. Ideally it would be great if there was a way to appeal to both, but I guess that's easier said than done.

I thought maybe if we just had a 90s verse and then the other stuff co-currently, kinda was getting that a bit with Kevin VanHook on another Bloodshot! At one point I think it was an idea for the preorder ones that have extra content to just have the OG back up story in those issues...

Nice! That would've been great to see.

[The Harbinger]

Could we get something impactful that Hawkins or Antos did do in their Valiant roles while you were there?

impactful? WIt’s Valiant, a brand that’s had its share of highs and lows over the years, and people have always had mixed feelings about it no matter what. What’s considered impactful varies from fan to fan—it’s really a matter of personal interest with each person. Since they were my coworkers, I might be a bit biased in my opinion one way or the other. Either way, it struggled and at least has legs now.

There is something lovely about the fact there is always a person or two behind the scenes, trying to keep it from dying completely off and keeping comics on shelves... that is what made me appreciate it.

I was thinking more that senior editors did something besides attend meetings. Yes, we understand Pierce was in over his head. That seems to be agreed upon, so only so much to discuss there.

At my office (and any job I've ever had), I can look at each coworker and tell you that they did X, or accomplished this project. In any collaborative environment, those details are apparent. The only people I could never do that with on occasion were the sweet spot in middle management that just attended meetings, and provided nothing of tangible value above or below their station.

So since we have some allusions to them being hamstrung editorially, they either were capable of making impact or they weren't. That's why I was curious to hear of any impact or specific achievement. It can even be public facing information so that you don't give away any private details.

My assumption of Antos and how she used social media during her tenure at Valiant (as a senior editor mind you) was she more interested in gatekeeping and settling personal scores with others in the industry (like with Renie) than she was with the quality of the comics. And if she was hamstrung by Pierce and couldn't manage editorial like her job description stated, it would make sense why she had the free time to do so.

[daniellew61]

Forgive me for asking, What is Renie?

I'm not just saying this, but I am truly clueless about her social media use things and what they meant for the books. I am not sure we even followed each other on twitter tbh?

Who she was outside of the office was whatever - I liked working with her because she had good access to several artists retailers got the chance to do exclusives with, ones that normally even would have higher rates, especially during covid when it helped them get work and made stores happy, everyone was winning with that kinda stuff going on - so that was personally fun for me. She was also always super early getting in work on her books, and super organized. She collaborated with me on the promo item stuff too and always answered several annoying questions I had each day.

Covid really threw such wrench into plans - it was like, suddenly a tailspin, I can't imagine being on that side where your plans change because of covid related budget cuts, changes in schedule, EVERYTHING was out the window - Still, the Shadowman 2021 did well with everything working against it, but by the time it was finally released she was already gone. In another universe where things like Final Witness did come out, who knows what people might think.

[The Harbinger]

Forgive me for asking, What is Renie? I'm not just saying this, but I am truly clueless about her social media use things and what they meant for the books.

That part is easy to paste since I was demonstrating Antos's knack for scalp hunting in the industry on the other threads (time stamps in the tweets), which she is pretty well known for. Even her most ardent supporters know she's at the center of quite a few of these flame wars with other professionals

https://twitter.com/HeatherAntos/status ... 2498422785
https://twitter.com/RenieDraws/status/1 ... 5034136578
https://twitter.com/RenieDraws/status/1 ... 8020431874

Her harassment of Jae Lee with Tom King and issues with Ken Rocafort you may be more aware of since those occurred during Valiant. I'd love for you to speak on them, but I can imagine how that's a little spicy to discuss the inner office drama here.

Who she was outside of the office was whatever - I liked working with her because she had good access to several artists retailers got the chance to do exclusives with, ones that normally even would have higher rates, especially during covid when it helped them get work and made stores happy, everyone was winning with that kinda stuff going on - so that was personally fun for me. She was also always super early getting in work on her books, and super organized. She collaborated with me on the promo item stuff too and always answered several annoying questions I had each day.

Covid really threw such wrench into plans - it was like, suddenly a tailspin, I can't imagine being on that side where your plans change because of covid related budget cuts, changes in schedule, EVERYTHING was out the window - Still, the Shadowman 2021 did well with everything working against it, but by the time it was finally released she was already gone. In another universe where things like Final Witness did come out, who knows what people might think.

And it sounds like that was the value add. She had the connections, so it sounds like her network of who she could get and at what cost was the benefit.

[daniellew61]

If there were conversations had about those tweets, I wasn't there for them - I was always of the practice "don't feed the trolls"

We had Jae lee on an exclusive cover for Rai 2019, that also later got used for the deluxe, so as far as seeing personal "feuds" influencing the materials..it didn't.

I never had a single retailer tell me she was a reason they weren't going to order Valiant because of her as an editor.. Plently would still bring up the Clinton Faith cover years later, or that Valiant was never supposed to go digital, etc.... things like that were always brought up.

[The Harbinger]

Well Antos is initiating those like she did with Tom King for Jae’s blacklisting, so not really a feed the trolls.


And how often were you told by retailers why they weren’t ordering Valiant any longer? I feel like that would happen as often as when i tell a waitress the food sucked, which is rarely.

[daniellew61]

Well Antos is initiating those like she did with Tom King for Jae’s blacklisting, so not really a feed the trolls.


And how often were you told by retailers why they weren’t ordering Valiant any longer? I feel like that would happen as often as when i tell a waitress the food sucked, which is rarely.

You wouldn't ask a waitress to get you a different order if you got something, and it sucked? Why????

How often? Depends how many we reached out to, and why we were. That was the whole point of having sales team, so people were free for constant outreach

Retailers want good comics because that's what keeps them in business. Valiant had a sales staff dedicated to asking retailers about the pros and cons of what they were seeing, getting, and requesting. Retailers were super honest, sometimes brutally so. I could call them and see when their orders were decreasing. They want publishers to provide good products, so they get very honest about what they want. I didn't take it personally because my job wasn't to make the books—it was to report the feedback we collected as the sales team. But it did weigh heavy when I'd hear a lot of the same thing repeated but had no ability to help it change. With retailers, it wouldn't be in their best interest to hold back about what they wanted from Valiant. We heard plenty of different opinions, surveyed specific questions when we had ideas, and reported everything up the chain. Rinse and repeat.

[Chiclo]

Jae Lee did the cover for the VIP trAshcan, so I am predisposed to take the side of anyone feuding with him.

I was aghast he was allowed to do a Valiant cover.

[Ryan]

Jae Lee did the cover for the VIP trAshcan, so I am predisposed to take the side of anyone feuding with him.

I was aghast he was allowed to do a Valiant cover.

Deep Cut. That's how you know no one from DMG was on the boards in 07

Any time this point is brought up, it's good to put the focus back...

[daniellew61]

Either way it was fun chatting with you guys. I hope I cleared up some confusion. The best thing now is that there is a future ahead!