USA TODAY: Death Comes to Valiant Comics Harbinger Series

[bygranddesign]

Hmmm... Dysart's comments don't exactly inspire confidence.

I used "interesting", but you could replace that with what you said. I was being nice.

I agree, I appreciate his honesty, and I still love the comic itself, but it's sad to see. Can't help but lose a bit of confidence in the company. I know it's not their fault, and I know it's what they think it's what they have to do to survive, so I do understand it. But I can't help but feel this way. He makes it sound that each arc is developed as a marketing ploy first, then they try and make it a good story after. I could be wrong there but still, sad to hear this.

yep .. its unfortunate. It seems the marketing department has too much power over the creative process.

Just let Dysart do his thing ... Gimmicks and Marketing Hype aren't the long term answer in making this title a month to month top 100 comic. Most of those titles are established well known characters who have cross appeal into movies and tv shows. It's rare that a comic that doesn't have that cross appeal cracks the top 100 (and stays there).

I'm not sure what VEI expects but I think the numbers for Harbinger are pretty good. There are a lot of good titles out there that don't put up Harbinger numbers every month.

[hawkeyeps]

Comment from Dysart in the Valiant Comics Fan Facebook Group, responding to comments about VEI using more "gimmicky" things like this arc involving a death:

I'll be honest with you. At the level Valiant is now playing, and with the amount of money they've invested in these properties, they have to do whatever it takes to sell books. Quality and readership loyalty totally sells books. But, sadly, so does multiple covers, crossovers, character deaths and narratives driven by marketing. Right now part of the energy of Harbinger that everyone likes is, in part, because every single arc has to have a marketing hook. I had hoped that at some point the numbers on our book would've gotten to the place where we could've relaxed and just told good stories well and each issue didn't have to be a huge event or built around a news worthy headline. But that's just not the case. Harbinger has received a lot of critical acclaim, but it isn't very strong in sales. So now the mission becomes to take those creative choices that are, unquestionably, designed as marketing hooks and execute them in the best way possible and hope that readers come. But at the end of the day, I just want to be proud of the work, whatever the engine was for the creative decisions. And Valiant may be doing what other publishers have to do to survive, but they've never backed me so far into a corner that I didn't get to work in my own voice, and I am very, very, very proud of what we've done with Harbinger. Regardless of compromises.

So because I worry because I love Valiant and I can't stop thinking about it... does this mean Valiant is in trouble?

Well, coming from a writer employee of a company he probably knows very little other than they are (probably politely) asking him to adjust his story lines to make them a little more marketable. As a writer who probably wants at least some control over the story, it is probably a little disappointing. He probably had expected the sales would allow him more freedom by now, and that is what is coming off as a negative tone in his post.

I honestly think VEI is doing well, but the only people who really know are Dino, the Cuneos, and the investors (and probably Warren and a few others).

My concern is more that Dysart may become a little disillusioned and eventually leave VEI for that green pasture of Image and creator-owned work (although that model is an "eat what you kill" sorta situation).

I would hope VEI goes all in with Dysart and makes him head writer for the long haul, I think he's a major talent and would like to see his influence on the VEI universe in a major way.

I'd be super upset if VEI lost Dysart and Venditti those 2 are the pillars of the VEI universe and as long as they have them they will be okay, IMO.

[jkingman]

I don't know if my heart could handle losing Faith...

[Shadowman99]

I don't know if my heart could handle losing Faith...

[erwinrafael]

Hmmm... Dysart's comments don't exactly inspire confidence.

I used "interesting", but you could replace that with what you said. I was being nice.

I agree, I appreciate his honesty, and I still love the comic itself, but it's sad to see. Can't help but lose a bit of confidence in the company. I know it's not their fault, and I know it's what they think it's what they have to do to survive, so I do understand it. But I can't help but feel this way. He makes it sound that each arc is developed as a marketing ploy first, then they try and make it a good story after. I could be wrong there but still, sad to hear this.

yep .. its unfortunate. It seems the marketing department has too much power over the creative process.

Just let Dysart do his thing ... Gimmicks and Marketing Hype aren't the long term answer in making this title a month to month top 100 comic. Most of those titles are established well known characters who have cross appeal into movies and tv shows. It's rare that a comic that doesn't have that cross appeal cracks the top 100 (and stays there).

I'm not sure what VEI expects but I think the numbers for Harbinger are pretty good. There are a lot of good titles out there that don't put up Harbinger numbers every month.

The numbers are not good enough to sustain a whole company. Marvel and DC can afford to have lower selling titles because they have high-selling titles that could carry the fixed costs of running the company. and they have revenue streams other than publishing. you have to look at the performance of VEI as a whole, not on a per title basis. they most likely have enough to sustain the variable costs of each title but not the fixed costs of running a whole company.

[AnthonyF]

For me
This announcement doesn't scream 'desperate' any more than the press for Harbinger Wars or Planet Death. Just look at XO 21's cover - appears to be XO vs Ninjak - just another cover that didnt accurately show the issue contents.

In light of the VH1's stories, I'm surprised we haven't seen more deaths from VEI (Bloodshot characters not withstanding).

[bygranddesign]

Hmmm... Dysart's comments don't exactly inspire confidence.

I used "interesting", but you could replace that with what you said. I was being nice.

I agree, I appreciate his honesty, and I still love the comic itself, but it's sad to see. Can't help but lose a bit of confidence in the company. I know it's not their fault, and I know it's what they think it's what they have to do to survive, so I do understand it. But I can't help but feel this way. He makes it sound that each arc is developed as a marketing ploy first, then they try and make it a good story after. I could be wrong there but still, sad to hear this.

yep .. its unfortunate. It seems the marketing department has too much power over the creative process.

Just let Dysart do his thing ... Gimmicks and Marketing Hype aren't the long term answer in making this title a month to month top 100 comic. Most of those titles are established well known characters who have cross appeal into movies and tv shows. It's rare that a comic that doesn't have that cross appeal cracks the top 100 (and stays there).

I'm not sure what VEI expects but I think the numbers for Harbinger are pretty good. There are a lot of good titles out there that don't put up Harbinger numbers every month.

The numbers are not good enough to sustain a whole company. Marvel and DC can afford to have lower selling titles because they have high-selling titles that could carry the fixed costs of running the company. and they have revenue streams other than publishing. you have to look at the performance of VEI as a whole, not on a per title basis. they most likely have enough to sustain the variable costs of each title but not the fixed costs of running a whole company.

We all know Marvel and DC are from different worlds. They dominate the top 100. I would never compare VEI to them. IDW, Dynamite, Zenescope..etc, they are in the same world as VEI .. None of those publishers have a flagship title that is a top 100 comic month in and month out. And their per title average sales are less than VEI. Yet they are surviving.

I think the trick for VEI is trying to expand their line while keeping the average per title up.

I think VEI are doing some smart things to generate sales month to month .. I like when marketing and the creative process go hand in hand. The Zero issues that focus on a character is a great idea and I think a welcome way for a creator to tell a singular story that will get great exposure and are fan favorite issues. Same thing with Shadowman: End times. That's a mini series where most everyone is happy. The writer is happy to create this miniseries that will be judged on its own and get extra exposure. VEI is happy because this will give a boost to their sales for that month. And I think the fans should be happy because its an exciting event.

I think more and more miniseries would be a smart move for VEI. There are so many EW stories that could be told - they can't all be told in the regular series or Unity. Same thing with Shadwman. How about a miniseries that continues the 1969 Harada story from Harbinger Wars?

I'm thinking that perhaps Justin Jordan XO thing is a miniseries.

[lorddunlow]

How about a miniseries that continues the 1969 Harada story from Harbinger Wars?

Yes, please. I'll take two. Make it three.

[bygranddesign]

How about a miniseries that continues the 1969 Harada story from Harbinger Wars?

Yes, please. I'll take two. Make it three.

It was one of my favorite parts of Harbinger Wars. Instead of compromising Dysart's vision when it comes to Harbinger, Crack the whip a different way by having him write a mini-series. Besides 1969 Harada, he could also explore other threads that have been left hanging like The Witch Space Tunnel tales of Traveler and Hive (and Astral) or the origin of Telic. Even better a 4001 storyline involving Psiot's or whatever he wants - I think that would be super exciting. Dysart can really go nuts with his imagination.

[lorddunlow]

Now that I've thought a little about this, maybe the title has lost a little luster for me (I still love the book, but it's maybe number 3 for VEI and below a lot of the rest of my pull list, whereas it used to be VEI's best by a large margin and was in my top 5 of all comics I read) because Dysart is not telling the story he wants to tell. Editorial and marketing is driving it too much.

Now, I'm not saying that VEI is dictating every plot point (or even many of them), but Dysart's tone above makes me think the editorial influence is affecting him. It may even be subconscious. It definitely doesn't feel like the same book.

[Big Red]

I think I am going with Kris on this one.

Yep. My money is on Kris.

With Ax joining, they don't really need two non-powered geniuses.

[Scarlet-Batman]

Now that I've thought a little about this, maybe the title has lost a little luster for me (I still love the book, but it's maybe number 3 for VEI and below a lot of the rest of my pull list, whereas it used to be VEI's best by a large margin and was in my top 5 of all comics I read) because Dysart is not telling the story he wants to tell. Editorial and marketing is driving it too much.

Now, I'm not saying that VEI is dictating every plot point (or even many of them), but Dysart's tone above makes me think the editorial influence is affecting him. It may even be subconscious. It definitely doesn't feel like the same book.

Unfortunately, when you play in other people's sandboxes, you sometimes have to give a little to keep telling the great stories you want to tell.

[lorddunlow]

Now that I've thought a little about this, maybe the title has lost a little luster for me (I still love the book, but it's maybe number 3 for VEI and below a lot of the rest of my pull list, whereas it used to be VEI's best by a large margin and was in my top 5 of all comics I read) because Dysart is not telling the story he wants to tell. Editorial and marketing is driving it too much.

Now, I'm not saying that VEI is dictating every plot point (or even many of them), but Dysart's tone above makes me think the editorial influence is affecting him. It may even be subconscious. It definitely doesn't feel like the same book.

Unfortunately, when you play in other people's sandboxes, you sometimes have to give a little to keep telling the great stories you want to tell.

I totally understand that, and I know Dysart understands that, but he could have convinced himself that he would have more freedom with his stories than he does currently (which he really admitted to in the above statement). Everyone who has had gone into something with certain expectations (whether realistic or otherwise) and had reality set in knows what that feels like.

I'm mostly speaking from my own experience in my career. I'm an employed physician of a large hospital organization. I could probably make more money, have more control, and overall have a greater enjoyment of my career if I started my own practice. However, I took an employed position because it is scary to think that if I don't see enough patients or manage my practice well, I go bankrupt with 100s of thousands of dollars of education debt hanging over my head. I definitely told myself that I'd deal with the negatives of an employed by coming up with unrealistic expectations of how things would work. I now have lots of negative feelings toward my employer that would probably not be as intense had I gone in thinking I'd be told what to do all the time and made to practice in a way with which I sometimes disagree.

I feel sympathy for Dysart. This is also why I worry, as I'm planning on ways out of this job as soon as I have one that doesn't have a lot of risk but gives me more freedom comes along. I'm afraid he may be thinking the same thing. You can't blame him.

[Chiclo]

I think I am going with Kris on this one.

Yep. My money is on Kris.

With Ax joining, they don't really need two non-powered geniuses.

If Kris dies, she will die plotting.

[String]

The thing I'm most glad about is that Warren Simons had confirmed that Valiant is still the place where DEAD IS DEAD! I think this is vital for the ongoing integrity of the stories/universe!

+ 1,000,000,000

Killing a major character may have become a gimmick to increase sales but so has bringing that character back to life 6 months later. I'll be more impressed if VEI neglects to join the Big Two aboard the Comic Revolving Door of Death.

[Bl00dsh0t]

All Dysart's comments make me want to do is go down to my LCS and pick up the books I'm not reading and try to support this great company. Valiant's relaunch got me reading comics again and I'm yet to be disappointed by a single thing they've put out (Yes, I even liked Shadowman, just thought it went too far too quickly).

Will now add XO, Shadowman (left after 13X, was gona pick up trades post 13 but End Times has sucked me back in) and Eternal Warrior to my pull-list (and the A&A: Archer #0 and BS crossovers).

Harbinger has been fantastic - great stories that are well written and entertaining. Everything that happens feels natural and not forced. If Dysart is being given specific direction on what to focus on, it's not apparent in the writing, from a quality perspective, as the heads of Valiant say, it feels organic.

Back to the topic: I'm really looking forward to seeing who dies in this arc - not because I want to see someone go (I'm still getting over Pulse) but moreso to see how it changes the dynamic and the Valiant U landscape. Whilst I was sad to see Pulse, Gamma, and Maniac go, this will be the first big character to go. A major event (and one that I hope brings in a ton of new readers).

[ShadowTuga]

I think I am going with Kris on this one.

Yep. My money is on Kris.

With Ax joining, they don't really need two non-powered geniuses.

If Kris dies, she will die plotting.

Seriously, this will be a tough pill to swallow: any of the 5 main renegades has the potential for many great stories, for many years. BUT IF IT'S FAITH- I CAN NOT EVEN IMAGINE IT. CAN'T.
I just hope I'm not spoiled (shut your mouth, Bleeding Cool!) and that it doesn't feel a gimmick- which I trust it won't since it's Dysart executing it.
In that dude I trust.

[leonmallett]

I think I am going with Kris on this one.

Yep. My money is on Kris.

With Ax joining, they don't really need two non-powered geniuses.

If Kris dies, she will die plotting.

Seriously, this will be a tough pill to swallow: any of the 5 main renegades has the potential for many great stories, for many years. BUT IF IT'S FAITH- I CAN NOT EVEN IMAGINE IT. CAN'T.
I just hope I'm not spoiled (shut your mouth, Bleeding Cool!) and that it doesn't feel a gimmick- which I trust it won't since it's Dysart executing it.
In that dude I trust.

It is okay, imagining it is the writer's job!

[Big Red]

I just don't want it to be Peter or Faith.

I would miss the others, but it wouldn't be the end of my world if one of them died.

But the book just wouldn't be the same without Peter or Faith.

[bygranddesign]

Although I personally like Kris more than Faith

I agree that Faith and Peter are the 2 most important renegade characters ... And to lose either one would completely change the book for me and would leave a gaping void that seemingly would be impossible to fill.

Peter for obvious reasons which have been stated already.

Faith because she has too much long term potential story wise ... And marketing wise she is an example of what differentiates Valiant from other superhero universes. She is NOT the typical superhero. The fact that she is so beloved should be celebrated and embraced by VEI. To kill her off would be a mistake, IMO.

Kris as much as I like her .. Her death could lead to interesting future stories with how that will devastate Peter.

Flamingo I think is more interesting than given credit for .. She has had a lot of cool moments. But she is probable the most replaceable in the group.